South Dakota: "Screw Roe v. Wade"

[sspadowsky]

The South Dakota Senate voted 23-12 to outlaw all abortions except to save a woman's life. It will have to go back through the House, because of a slight change of wording, but the House already passed an initial version.

Unconstitutional? You betcha. Will it be struck down? Most likely- for now.

I love that this is being spearheaded by a man. And do you know how many women serve on the South Dakota Senate? Two.

My favorite part from the NY Times article:
"I didn't want money to be the reason people wouldn't vote for this bill," said Leslee J. Unruh, founder and president of the Abstinence Clearinghouse in Sioux Falls, who said she could not disclose the identities of those who had pledged money. "We're concerned with the 800 children aborted here every year."

No word on whether this moral crusader and her cohorts plan to adopt the 800 would-be babies each year.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by sspadowsky

"I didn't want money to be the reason people wouldn't vote for this bill," said Leslee J. Unruh, founder and president of the Abstinence Clearinghouse in Sioux Falls, who said she could not disclose the identities of those who had pledged money. "We're concerned with the 800 children aborted here every year."

No word on whether this moral crusader and her cohorts plan to adopt the 800 would-be babies each year.

She is however a woman, which means she's entitled to speak on this issue, and is probably right.

[sspadowsky]

I disagree.

It is her right to decide whether she wants to have one- not whether anyone else can.

[Royal Tenenbaum]

I'm concerned with the 800 unwanted kids who will be born and will potentially live shitty lives full of abuse. Of course they can't "choose" if they would rather have that crappy life than no life at all. So, if abortion is too be outlawed, then suicide better be legalized to give people a choice in the matter after the fact.

[The One and Only...]

Originally Posted by sspadowsky

It is her right to decide whether she wants to have one- not whether anyone else can.

There are no rights.

[ScruU2wice]

Wow dood that was deep, do you have Nitsche quotes follow that up?

[ScruU2wice]

I don't support abortions, but I think it's a really really really complicated issue.

The only reason I would support them would be that I don't want the practice to go "underground" and harm the life of some 15 year old girl who made the biggest mistake of her life. And I really don't know what to think about male accountability.

I don't know if I'll feel the same way about it in 5, 10, or 15 years. So I'm not really gonna post that much more about it. Plus anytime I say anything about abortion I get jumped on about by one person or another...

[sspadowsky]

OAO, I'll be very interested to hear what you think once you've got some real-world experience with..... well, anything. Until then, you're stuck enjoying your mental stroke-fest by yourself.

Scru, I think you're on the money. People are real hip on talking about accountability when it's not their own. It's a situation you can't possibly comprehend until you've been faced with it.

[King Hadas]

Yeah, I remember when my sister got pregant and the subject got brought up I honestly didn't know what to say.

[Rongi]

scru, in what case would you consider abortion to not be the best choice?

[Rongi]

i myself dont know where i stand on abortion. i dont wanna say i'm pro choice, because what the fuck do i know about getting an abortion? i can never have one. maybe everytime a girl gets one, she completely regrets it and that baby was meant to cure aids or play basket ball or something. But what about that stupid girl who got knocked up by a crack head, left them penniless and she chooses to keep that baby and raise it to be just like it's dead beat dad?

[Cosmo Electrolux]

I can't comment on abortion, because I've never had one. In fact, I've noticed that most of the people screaming about abortion are men...and I persoanlly believe that if men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament. These right to life maniacs are quick to condemn abotion as murder, but you never see them protesting when these children are left in squalor after their "mom's" are forced to carry them to term and neglect them afterwards.....you never see these self rightious assholes lining up to adopt these fetuses they save. No, they will condemn, they will put up their little white crosses and hang around the womens clinic screaming "murderer"at anyone who happens to drop their wife, mom, girlfriend, etc. off at the clinic, regardless if they're there for an abortion. They preach abstinence, but fail to teach responsibility for their actions. They call women who have abotions and the doctors who perfom them Murderers, but when they kill and main those doctors and women in those clinics, where is the outrage? Murder is murder, right?

[Big Papa Goat]

I noticed that most people who think the things I do are wrong aren't in fact me, so i dunno, I think think that's pretty hypocritical of them to be judging me.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Cosmo Electrolux

I can't comment on abortion, because I've never had one. In fact, I've noticed that most of the people screaming about abortion are men...and I persoanlly believe that if men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.

The rolling eyes emoticon just doesn't suffice here.

First of all, it's an absolute fallacy that only men staunchly support banning abortion. Most polling data ever done on the matter shows that a diverse cross sections of Americans are pretty evenly divided on the matter.

I know two women who both have mental and physically challenged children. Both were advised that abortion would be "an option," because there was no guarantee of the child's quality of life. They chose, thankfully, to have those children ,and are both staunchly pro-life.

These right to life maniacs are quick to condemn abotion as murder, but you never see them protesting when these children are left in squalor after their "mom's" are forced to carry them to term and neglect them afterwards.....you never see these self rightious assholes lining up to adopt these fetuses they save.

Oh really? Hmm, do you really believe that adoption isn't in high demand? I guess pro-life Chiristians NEVER adopt, huh?

They call women who have abotions and the doctors who perfom them Murderers, but when they kill and main those doctors and women in those clinics, where is the outrage? Murder is murder, right?

Oh, good lord. How often does this happen, Cosmo? Tell me, how many abrtion doctors are murdered every year? How many clinics are burned? What do you think the ratio is compared to people who peacefully protest outside of abortion clinics???

[MLE]

There have been no female posts in this thread up until now.

The practice will go underground if it's illegalized, and more people (that are actually cognizant of their existance) will die because of it.

I'm female. I have sex. I've had scares. Making a choice on this issue is more than just LIFE OR CHOICE. Honestly, you people in here have no room to talk until you have been through it. I don't think Chojin would even be able to talk, being in the scare with me. If it happens it is my body and my child. This is something that when you have this scare, it kills something inside of you to even think about the decision.

That being said, I'm Pro-choice. If someone makes the choice to abort and makes it so adamantly, they'll still do it. They still have that choice, and many people are so distraught that they would rather just commit suicide. I'm not going to take that choice of abortion away from them, no matter what my choice or stance happens to be.

[Fathom Zero]

Why can't we be against abortions, but for eating babies like Maddox?

After that poor attempt at humor, I feel that men should have no say in what a woman does with herself. It doesn't affect your life in any way, why should you care? But this opens up the problem of the unborn child. As women are the majority on this Earth anyway, I feel that they should be those who have the say.

People tell me, "Well this child could be the person who cures cancer one day. ". I ask them if that is the only argument they have, it implies that the child does not matter to them if it has no effect on society, that it doesn't matter if it works at Burger King forever, that it doesn't matter, even if it is the most precious and fragile part of life, unless it provides some durastic service later in life to the rest of the planet.

All children matter to me. I would gladly trade my own death for a life of suffering. But it's not up to me. I shouldn't be allowed to impede upon someone else's rights. That is the basis of the Constitution. I don't deserve a stance on this issue, so I stand by my original statement, I feel that men should have no say in what a woman does with herself or her child.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

I know two women who both have mental and physically challenged children. Both were advised that abortion would be "an option," because there was no guarantee of the child's quality of life. They chose, thankfully, to have those children ,and are both staunchly pro-life

I can only speak for myself, but I cannot understand why anyone whould knowingly bring a severely handicapped child into this word. To me that seems the height of cruelty.

Oh really? Hmm, do you really believe that adoption isn't in high demand? I guess pro-life Chiristians NEVER adopt, huh

I’m sure Christian do adopt, but the assholes I’m talking about are the ones picketing outside the abortion clinics, stalking employees, making death threats, etc.

Oh, good lord. How often does this happen, Cosmo? Tell me, how many abrtion doctors are murdered every year? How many clinics are burned? What do you think the ratio is compared to people who peacefully protest outside of abortion clinics??

How often, according to religioustolerance.org, a lot. Just in Florida alone:
1984-JUN: An abortion clinic was bombed

1984-DEC: The same clinic was bombed again

1986-MAR: A second clinic was broken into and vandalized; two female employees were assaulted. John Burt, a former member of the KKK, and his daughter were tried and convicted. John Burt became the local leader of Rescue America.

1993-MAR: Michael Griffin, allegedly a member of Rescue America, killed Dr. David Gunn outside an abortion clinic. Griffin's lawyers claimed that Burt had brainwashed Griffin into committing the killing. (There is a consensus among mental health professionals that this sort of "Manchurian Candidate" programming is impossible). Griffin was convicted and given a life sentence.

1994-JUL: Paul Hill, a former Presbyterian minister and leader in Defensive Action killed a physician and bodyguard outside another abortion clinic; he wounded the wife of the bodyguard. He was sentenced to both life imprisonment on federal charges, and execution on state charges.

1994-AUG: Five KKK groups demonstrated adjacent to an abortion clinic in Melbourne FL. They were opposed to abortions given to whites; they encourage abortions to persons of other races. They named Hill their hero of the month.

That’s just on one state during a ten year period. That may be acceptable to you but I'd be willing to bet the people those "Pro lifers" killed would think otherwise
That fact is that these people are supposedly PRO-LIFE, and yet they think it’s acceptable to kill to further their own religious agenda…or in their own words, to save the unborn.
It's bullshit, pure and simple

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by Cosmo Electrolux

I can only speak for myself, but I cannot understand why anyone whould knowingly bring a severely handicapped child into this word. To me that seems the height of cruelty.

Luckily, you only speak for yourself.

that's just on one state during a ten year period. That may be acceptable to you but I'd be willing to bet the people those "Pro lifers" killed would think otherwise

SIX occassions over the course of TEN years!!! And furthermore, not all of those cases were these horrible murders you're talking about. In fact, not even half of them appeared to be.

And this one: " 1994-AUG: Five KKK groups demonstrated adjacent to an abortion clinic in Melbourne FL. They were opposed to abortions given to whites; they encourage abortions to persons of other races. They named Hill their hero of the month."

OMG, WHAT HYPOCRITES PRO-LIFERS ARE!!? FIVE KKK GUYS PROTEST IN FLORIDA, WHAT ABOUT THAT PRO-LIFERS!!?

Ridiculous.

That fact is that these people are supposedly PRO-LIFE, and yet they think it’s acceptable to kill to further their own religious agenda…or in their own words, to save the unborn.
It's bullshit, pure and simple

Out of the six you cited, TWO resulted in murder. Pro-life activists protest EVERY SINGLE DAY, all across America.

Thanks for proving my point!

[ItalianStereotype]

how can women possibly say that men have no say in the abortion issue? half the responsibility for the pregnancy lies with men! besides that, men should have a say in an issue that involves EXTINGUISHING HUMAN LIFE ON A LARGE SCALE. fuck, in 2000 alone over 600,000 abortions were performed in the U.S. this is not a minor issue. those reasons aside, why should the state sanction killing to alleviate the pain of personal irresponsibility?

this is highly simplified, I know. this abortion thing has been done so many times and there's nowhere new to really go with it.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Eye Tie, you damn well better grow some breasts before you post in this thread again.

[ItalianStereotype]

do they have to be real?

[Fathom Zero]

I don't want to have a say in something like this, this is the kind of business that starts wars and divides nations. I want no part in it.

[Kulturkampf]

I am pro-life as fuck.

'always outnumbered, but never outgunned.'

[sspadowsky]

Originally Posted by Kultie

I am pro-life as fuck.

'always outnumbered, but never outgunned.'

Say, that's cute. I'll bet your colors don't run, and if I burn your flag, you'll burn my ass, too. I'll bet a large percentage of what you post here can probably be found on bumper stickers. Your rifle fires more often than your synapses.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!
It's a child, not a choice!
Git-R-Done!

[MLE]

My point is that you have no idea what a horrifying thought it is to kill your own unborn child, and any person that thinks about it lightly has never had to actually give it serious consideration or is fucked up.

Men do not have the child growing inside of them. I'm not saying you can't have an opinion. I'm saying you I don't believe it's right to make the decision to not give the choice to the woman. You have no clue what happens to us. As a man, you never have and never can experience having a child in you. It is much different than fathering a child.

In my opinion, this is the hardest decision with which to be faced for women.