Islam: Harmless Cab Drivers or PURE EVIL?

[VinceZeb]

Hating religion makes you smrt.

[mburbank]

Is THAT what made you so smrt? At least that's what people like like americans is saying when MUSLIMS attacked us now. So don't think you is more scholarly than I when that takes valuable time away from you playing X-box and Sleeping.

[O71394658]

I hate when people associate small groups of people with entire religions.

Religion isn't bad. It's just that some people who practice them may be. Small groups of Islamic terrorists (referring to terrorist groups today) or a Spanish king (referring to the Spanish Inquisition -though I'm not too bright on the subject, I believe it was through the actions of a king, not the Church itself). If studied in depth enough and with an open mind, all religions promote peace and unity. If you're looking for quotes to promote rascism, sexism, jihad, or violence, then you could definitely find them. Too bad they don't read in depth enough to find out that they take quotes out of context- or later passages negate those quotes entirely (i.e.- in the case of Jesus telling the Apostles to forget the old laws and codes). If you have a specific agenda, and you want religion to support it, it won't be hard to do. The hardest part is actually reading and understanding everything that it says.

[Anagram]

If you can find people who are desperate enough, and you have a charismatic enough leader, you can always find people to support your particular branch of extremism. That goes for all religions.

[Abcdxxxx]

When did the word extremist become synonomous with "small groups of people that aren't truly representative of a majority opinions" ? Anyone want to go dig up the number of women this "small group of extremists" are oppressing ? How many girls were mutilated by cliterecomys this year? We're talking about more then a few thousand nutcake extremists here. Entire nations are imposing these restrictions on their populations. Entire towns are under shari'a laws.

Please don't downplay this. Let's assume for a change that we're not all a bunch of simpletons here. Religion isn't all bad. Muslim's aren't all bad. Not every Muslim woman is set to be stoned. Now we're past that. Stop making apologies or downgrading the importance of this simply because you'd like to appear compassionate and understanding.

These crimes exist under an Islamic religious structure that protects the right to commit violent midevil acts.

[Abcdxxxx]

Originally Posted by Blue

Just as many christians beat there wives as muslims.

OK, so it's tied even on the wife beating...h'bout the slavery, stoning, forced nuptials, mutilation, and honor killings?

How many Priests or Archbishops defend these crimes in the (international) court of law as a religious freedom?

[Anagram]

What I'm trying to say is that because bad things happen in the name of Islam doesn't mean that Islam is evil, Muslims are satanic death crusaders and the Qu'ran is Medieval hate mail.

There's a lot of barbaric stuff going on in the Middle East and beyond, but the answer isn't to "bomb their countries, kill their leaders and convert them all to Christianity". I'm not some grea liberal or moderate, I just try to apply a bit of common sense to everything.

[Blue]

h'bout the slavery

Wasnt america built like this? Nearly every religious group is just interested in one thing you have and it isn't faith.

[ScruU2wice]

ok im not saying we should downplay any of this stuff, abcdxxx. And if i did in my other posts im sorry. but your other posts made it sound like the whole muslim world were wife beaters and oppressed women. And sadly ive met people who think this is the case

The solution is with the people and not changing the words of the koran. Changing the words of the koran is absolutely not an option... Changing the words of the Koran would be considered probably one of the highest degrees of blasphemy. So no matter what you say or bomb or destroy the word of the koran should not and will not be changed.

some of the stuff that happens in these places are horrible, i admit. Judy hearing about it makes me want to hit some one. If i could change the way people interpert the koran i would. But the reality of the matter is that these countries are poorly governed. Any country with a well structured government like saudia arabia doesn't have stonings and other types of laws that sentence women to death for adultry and such things. Part of the problem you have to admit is the governing of these countries...

[Abcdxxxx]

Scru - "Any country with a well structured government like saudia arabia doesn't have stonings and other types of laws that sentence women to death for adultry and such things"

Was this a typo? Saudi Arabia is one of the worst offendors.

[ScruU2wice]

ive heard of no women being stoned to death or killed in saudia arabia for pre-marital sex or adultry. I haven't heard of any but if you can cite some, i wil admit im wrong. But i was aiming more toward the countries in africa who stone women to death.

[kahljorn]

"How many Priests or Archbishops defend these crimes in the (international) court of law as a religious freedom?"

Only the one's who touch small children :O

Besides, stoning people and quartering them for not paying their taxes is all "Righteous" there. It's in the laws, a completely different Government, you can't judge them by our standards.

Notice how many seem to think America is evil as well. This is not necessarily about "Government", but over there their Religion and Government are basically the same thing.

[Abcdxxxx]

Do the research yourself. Don't take my word for it. Women are second class citizens in Saudi Arabia.

They are nearly always prohibited from working, they can't go out in public without wearing an abayya head to toe cloak, they can't travel without a male chaperone, and they're not allowed to drive. The muttawa'in (religious police) harrass them constantly. Unmarried women are the ward of their fathers, married women are the ward of their husbands. and a widowed woman is the ward of her sons. Women can't go to school, get an exit visa, or be admitted to a hospital without permission from that gaurdian. They're segregated in public to "family-only" areas or female restricted stores. A court room testimny from a woman is treated as inferior to a man's. Women make up half the student population, yet they're restricted from studying engineering, law or journalism. Yes, women convicted of adultry can be sentenced to stonings.

This isn't something made up by people who dislike religion or Muslims. These laws effect ALL Saudi women. ALL of them. If it's Mecca that's twisting and misrepresenting the Islamic religion, then that's a problem right? Where at the fatwas prohibiting the religious sanctions of this stuff?

[ScruU2wice]

so if we were to lift all these policies darastically from saudia arabia and change everything to suit what you think is fair, would they be any better? that would basically be like destroying a country/ countries. I have no problem with small changes a lil bit. you haven't really made any suggestions beside change the words of the koran which would do way more harm then good.

btw when i went to mecca, woman did not need chaperons... :/

[Abcdxxxx]

Okay well you seem to have gone from having no knowledge of these things, to thinking they just aren't happening....

...Plus you think if women had equal rights it would "destroy a country/countries". Way to represent Islam.

You can't change the Koran, but you can change the way it's practiced and recognize the dangers of some of the language just as every other major religion has. I hope you see the difference.

[Skulhedface]

Unfortunately, while some of the people may be smart, the whole is incredibly stupid. No matter how hard you try not to stereotype, it will happen. Anyone with half a brain knows that there are just as many bad Christians as there are bad Muslims or whathaveyou, and we are just as guilty of it as they are. Whereas the Iraqis tend to see us as the Devil, we see them all as terrorists.

Bah... religion complicates things. That's why I believe it's better to just have morals and live them yourself than follow some belief structure and force it on everyone else.

[ScruU2wice]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Okay well you seem to have gone from having no knowledge of these things, to thinking they just aren't happening....

i admitted that theses things were happening and they are horrible. What else should i say that im an evil human being for not personally changing everyones interpertation of the koran, or beating the crap out of all men who hit women. Sure that would be a wonderful thing, just find a way to make it feasible

...Plus you think if women had equal rights it would "destroy a country/countries". Way to represent Islam.

I said if you dirastically change the way the countries laws it will be bad. If in america we dramactically changed the constitution everything would go in to chaos, changin anythign too fast is a bad move...

You can't change the Koran, but you can change the way it's practiced and recognize the dangers of some of the language just as every other major religion has. I hope you see the difference.

I do practice the koran in unradical manner, but i do still practice the religon. How are muslims in america, canada, britan, and other countries practicing islam without beating their wives and harrasing women?

[Abcdxxxx]

Scru - " How are muslims in america, canada, britan, and other countries practicing islam without beating their wives and harrasing women?"

Under western laws with a basis in Judeo-Christian "values". Under a more liberal and modernized atmosphere where Muslims use the Koran on a personal basis, rather then the rule of the land. If you commit an honor killing here, you go to jail. That's how.

[ScruU2wice]

but they still practice the fundamental of islam, thats what i mean to say. Islam doesn't run on the oppression of women. I know some other countries twist the words of the koran and oppress women, but its not necessary to opress women in islam nor is it right. I can't do anything to stop the people in africa and whatever other nations you say treat women badly, besides practicing islam in a non-radical manner, which i do. I still conduct my life by the what the koran says and i haven't broken any laws hear...

[Abcdxxxx]

Africa? You wish we were just talking about Africa.

Are you saying that you practice true Islam here in the States, while people are twisting things in Mecca of all places?

I'll ask it again - If the mistreatment of women within the Muslim community *worldwide* has nothing to do with the Koran, or the religion itself, then how can you explain why the mistreatment is so prevelant in these societies?

[ScruU2wice]

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Africa? You wish we were just talking about Africa.

i wish i wasn't talking about any country

Are you saying that you practice true Islam here in the States, while people are twisting things in Mecca of all places?

im saying that islam is being practiced here, without harrassment of women. so it is possible to practice islam without the mistreatment of women

I'll ask it again - If the mistreatment of women within the Muslim community *worldwide* has nothing to do with the Koran, or the religion itself, then how can you explain why the mistreatment is so prevelant in these societies?

the bible doesn't condone pre-marital sex but many christians have sex before there married anyways... its the society that makes norms, and there societies evolved that way and i admit to us it seems primitive but thats the way they did. we can't judge societies without there perspective. That doesn't make there actions right, it's just we dont see it the way they do and they dont see it the way we do.

[Abcdxxxx]

Originally Posted by ScruU2wice

i wish i wasn't talking about any country

Agreed.

im saying that islam is being practiced here, without harrassment of women. so it is possible to practice islam without the mistreatment of women

Well, right. Which means there's no excuse for it.

its the society that makes norms, and there societies evolved that way and i admit to us it seems primitive but thats the way they did. we can't judge societies without there perspective. That doesn't make there actions right, it's just we dont see it the way they do and they dont see it the way we do.

...But here you are trying to excuse it again. Obviously they think what they're doing is right - but that doesn't make it okay. We're not talking about a difference of tradition, we're talking about cultural evolution, and criminal acts on a specific gender.

You just got done saying one could practice Islam without all the misogyny.... and if that's the case then they should. Not because my values insist on it, but because the Muslim world isn't a seperatist island anymore. There *have* beena few examples of honor killings in the United States. In one instance, the Suadi government even attempted to step in and demand Shari'a law be applied to the case.

[Blue]

Just shut the fuck up femnazi

[Anonymous]

Originally Posted by Jeanette X

Then no Christian country would ever modernize because many Christians believe the Bible to be infalliable.

Christians and Muslims are different. Different strokes for different folks, and all. Just because they believe that they shouldn't modernize doesn't automatically mean that Christians believe the same thing.


Edit: The bottom line for me is that it isn't right to single out a religion as being wrong or evil because of how some of its followers choose to interpret its dogma.

[imported_Hollycaust]