EFFICIENCY=DEATH

[The One and Only...]

Feed what poor? Our poor are being fed. If you are talking about the poor in foreign countries, well, you better pray that globalization comes that much faster, because foreign aid goes down the drain without liberalization reforms.

We are efficient at getting rid of pollution. But it can't be completely eliminated, especially in developing nations. Trying to enforce a worldwide set of regulations for pollution will force such nations back into poverty. Regulations always come after wealth grows, not before.

Nukes? Good idea.

Death would still be around. It's called crime.

[Zhukov]

It was an example of good eficiency and how efficiency doen't in itself mean death. Only apitalst efficiency

[derrida]

I found myself thinking "I seem to remember reading that somewhere..." My sig is a collection of bumper stickers from the Church of Euthanasia, whom I think express some very endearing sentiments.

Mad props (sloppy blowjobs optional) to mesobe for keeping me from posting even more Marxist theory.

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by sspadowsky

Helm and the new guy make much sense in their statements. Ultimately, I think there's a trade-off for everything. When you have a shitload of leisure time, you tend to grow bored, restless, and dissatisfied. Life can often seem pointless when computers and pills do everything for you.

If space travel is eventually perfected, the people on the fringes/outposts will have to work hard to maintain survival while those who stay on planet earth will increase their efficiency and, consequently, their entropy.

All I know is that during the time of small family farms in the U.S. it is doubtful that anyone working them had to have pectoral implants put into their body. They EARNED them (Please avoid my anachrosticity and disregard the fact that medical science hadn't perfected that type of surgery at that time).

With all this saved time and energy I will have time to perfect my skills of ESP and astral travel thereby negating the need to earn money for yearly vacations.

[Anonymous]

Feed what poor? Our poor are being fed.

Yet another example of why experience means nothing, huh?

[Helm]

I WORSHIP THE SUN!

[mesobe]

hmm...I dont know if The One and Only knows what he/she is talking about. what does "experience" have anything to do with having fed our poor (which we havent. go to a major city and walk around downtown. Far from fed!) and what does experience have to do with the issue of the negative and positive effects of making our lives more efficient?

It sounds like your looking for an excuse to use big fancy words.

[Helm]

yes yes you understand exactly what OAO is about. Concratulations. Now please disregard him completely like people around here should do. We're hoping that he'll either go away or shut up.

[The One and Only...]

I understand how people are misusing the term experience. All that I said was that efficiency is the tool by which we maximize our life experience. When we choose to do one thing over another, we are attempting to be more efficient in the production of our personal pleasure. Experience has nothing to do with people starving.

[mesobe]

yup. and maximizing our life experience is going to be the death of us all. Making our lives more worry-free and convenient is like painting ourselves in a courner.

for example, one can say that computers are the number one tool that has made our lives easier. In fact most of us rely on them for our survival everyday. To take it further, computers rely on electricity... which is just a bunch of vibrating electrons. Humans rely on little invisible balls that move around... and without them, we are fucked. Total chaos would ensue.

I think the scales have flipped. the more convenience we create for ourselves, the more we are fucked if all those little balls stop moving around.

Humans have this crazy ability of creating something out of nothing. Either inventing things in our heads (like religion) or the ability of taking a mountain and turning it into metal objects and structures etc.

[theapportioner]

EFFICIENCY = DEATH kinda reminds me of Judge Dredd. Y'know, how Judge Death thought it'd be a better idea to make life a crime...

[Helm]

The city is guilty! The crime is life! The sentence is death! Darkness descends!

[The One and Only...]

How do you know religion was created out of nothing? You don't. In fact, atheism is created out of nothing, since logically a supernatural entity could exist. Agnosticism is the only logical stance.

The thing you have forgotten is that the little electric balls won't stop moving around, and if they did, we would be fucked regardless of our technological advancements.

[Buggerman]

tricky!

[mesobe]

religion is an invention created by humans. It was a tool humans used to help them explain complicated phenomena and help them curb what is known as "the ignorance of causes." ("Leviathan" by Thomas Hobbes). The arguement if a god does or does not exsist is one thing, but religion is a whole other matter.

Look at what happened when the power went out along the eastern coastline of Canada and the US last year. It seems like those little balls stopped moving then and it was a complete nightmare over there. People are still talking about it. do you remember how long it was out for? I think 24 hours or so... no more then a few days. Could you imagine if the whole world shut down forever? Its almost too hard to contimplate!

and whats so logical about a supernatural entity? "logic" and "supernatural" are on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

[AChimp]

OAO, you are a total loser. For someone who questions reality, you sure take things literally.

[mesobe]

hah! some people like having a discussion and others just like to argue.

[Mr. Vagiclean]

:/ Come on guys, isn't it all about "balance"? x]. The damn "argument" made a full circle, just on a higher plane. Mesobe i wish i had the ability to put down the words that come into my mind like you can. You make OAO look like a mere advocate, nothing more

[mesobe]

welp, I just want to express my opinion and hear others viewpoints in turn.

I dont really care for these "zen masters of the universe" who think they are so fucking smart, that their comments with the fancy word play can fool us into thinking they know what they are talking about.

OAO, get a life.

[Big Papa Goat]

That stuff about the little balls was pretty fucking stupid. Unless you just meant we should have more reliable power systems, in which case it was off topic. But still pretty fucking stupid.

[mesobe]

how is it so fuking stupid? and how is it off topic? did you even *read* anything I posted? or did you just read every 4th word.

[Vibecrewangel]

OAO - can you please explain what you mean when you speak of experience.

[kellychaos]

Originally Posted by Big Papa Goat

That stuff about the little balls was pretty fucking stupid. Unless you just meant we should have more reliable power systems, in which case it was off topic. But still pretty fucking stupid.

BGP, we all know that quantum physics is way more complicated than "little balls". I don't think that he meant it that literally.

[The One and Only...]

Originally Posted by mesobe

religion is an invention created by humans. It was a tool humans used to help them explain complicated phenomena and help them curb what is known as "the ignorance of causes." ("Leviathan" by Thomas Hobbes). The arguement if a god does or does not exsist is one thing, but religion is a whole other matter.

That is only one explanation. One cannot discount the possibility that God did, in some shape or form, make himself known, even if such an expression is incomprehensible to our minds. I'm not discussing the improbability of the matter; I'm discussing the possibility of the matter, which is entirely different.

Look at what happened when the power went out along the eastern coastline of Canada and the US last year. It seems like those little balls stopped moving then and it was a complete nightmare over there. People are still talking about it. do you remember how long it was out for? I think 24 hours or so... no more then a few days. Could you imagine if the whole world shut down forever? Its almost too hard to contimplate!

Not only does that have little to do with your point about the elmination of electron movement, but let's face the facts - by a large gap we still live in better conditions than in the past even when such tradgedies occur. Even in the unlikely event that a cluster of problems will happen at once, we would simply have to return to our primitive state to survive - that does not mean that we destroyed ourselves. Quite the contrary - we advanced ourselves, and after time, can advance ourselves again as we possess knowledge of our previous advancements. It is such advancements which allowed us to get so far in dominating the planet, after all, which will ultimately work in our favor.

Recall that the earth will eventually be pulled into the sun. Unless we create technology to leave earth, we will all die.

and whats so logical about a supernatural entity? "logic" and "supernatural" are on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

You don't know much about natural theology, do you? Read up on the Cosmological Argument (which I found out about after I posted my one proof for the supernatural. The two are very similar, though not the same). I think it should be sufficient for my purpose.

[The One and Only...]

Originally Posted by Vibecrewangel

OAO - can you please explain what you mean when you speak of experience.

Sense experience does not provide any knowledge on it's own. It can provide data, so to speak, but in order for something to be known (as in relation to truth) thought must occur.