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Sethomas Sethomas is offline
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Old Sep 16th, 2006, 06:38 PM        Just a random question of racial tendencies
How much difference does race affect vocal timbre? I mean, in the United States we think of everything in terms of black or white, and the black community tends to be so united that even well-educated and intelligent blacks (OMG WHAT AN ANOMALY SETHOMAS IS RACIST) have a distinct timbre, although they often deliberately separate themselves from the whole ebonics accent and such. So, no, I'm not talking about a twang or anything. Beyond America, I've only heard a handful of blacks speak in British English. While it was distinctively British, it still had something of a similarity with the overtones of American blacks, even though they tend to have a much less burdened history that would put them into a cultural niche where it was convention to speak in a given way.

Oddly, when I would speak French with people from Sub-Saharan Africa, they mostly shared a distinct tone but it was somewhat different from American and British blacks. That could just be a mental quirk for me listening to something in a second language I barely grasp at an intermediate level, or maybe just from them speaking it (very well, usually) in a second language of theirs. Often it's hard to distinguish timbre from an accent or twang, something I had to always wonder when talking to my Kentuckian relatives.

To apply it elsewhere, I've met a great many people of Middle Eastern descent who grew up in a pure American-English environment and they'd sound as we think of a "white" voice, but I've met others from similar backgrounds who still have a different timbre. Even as course as we tend to stereotype the Arabic language, I find that such people have a very soothing timbre in most cases. The same goes for Asians; Asian countries are often very good at teaching English, so I've met many people who would carefully articulate their words in a clipped tone (as people say that I do often) even if they seemed to be struggling for proper vocabulary. I've met Asians who sound perfectly "white" who mostly grew up in American households, barely aware of their family's mother tongue, but I've met people in the same circumstances who still had a distinct "Asian" timbre. Again, same caveat about regional accents and such. One of my good friends at Chicago was American-born of I believe Korean and Chinese parents, and she would always insist that she looked and sounded white when neither was the case.

I just wonder because anthropology is a fascinating subject to me. And don't think that I believe every word of the Bell Curve--if I did, I'd have reason to be embarrassed when an urban black man whiped the floor with me when I played chess with him. I know how controversial it is to EVER mention genes when dealing with things like propensity and tendency, but having compared attitudes between African Americans and people born in Africa, I'm convinced the whole Bell Curve BS is more sociological than racial, not to mention bad science in itself. Just consider the fact that the hot spot for theology and politics these days is Sub-Saharan Africa with brilliant minds like Francis Cardinal Arinze, Nelson Mandela, Kofi Annan, and the like.
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Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
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Old Sep 16th, 2006, 06:54 PM       
How much of a difference to race effect physical characteristics? There's no definitive answer. In terms of voice, most of it has to do with surroundings. A well adjusted person from the same surrounding probably isn't going to notice the racial difference unless they find a particularly interesting characteristic that sticks out. Honestly I just think your observations are pretty naive and limited to your own travels and exposure to varied cultures.
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FartinMowler FartinMowler is offline
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Old Sep 16th, 2006, 06:57 PM       
When I was first dating my wife who came from Hong Kong her english wasn't very good only because Cantonese they don't use the tongue to pronounce words as they do with a language like Mandarin. I would think that African americans speak in a different tone to define who they are in order to "keep it real".
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Old Sep 16th, 2006, 08:24 PM       
Not to agree too much with Fartin, but my own experience leads me to believe that accents... and tonality, I suppose... are intentional more often then not at and past the point of fluency. I'm no international man of mystery, but I've known at least a few folks from other parts of the world with plenty of experience speaking English... When asked, and I have, they admit freely that their imperfections are meant as a presentation of themselves to friends and strangers.

That being said, I live in the Deep South. Most of my customers are black folks, and I live in a community where I am the minority by far(I'm pretty much white, btw.) I've heard very few blacks get offended at the idea that people can tell their skin color from their voice, say over a phone. It happens, but it's rare. This is all just my observation, so I'm not speaking from any sort of scientific basis.... but I would say there's a physical and thus probably genetic "tonality" to black voices. I don't believe that noticing that is any more racist than observing that a darker toned person is physically lighter toned than you are.

I have, though, been treated as a racist when I commented on a person's "improved skin color" after his having been sick. I'm not sure why that was offensive, as he had been sort of pale while ill and had regained his former, darker, color... but I guess that falls into the race is better left alone bucket. I'm wondering, now, what the point of this was... Are you that isolated from others, or are you just looking for some Renaissance Man points?
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 03:44 AM       
Actually, I was watching a segment with puppets (children's programming make for great internet memes) and there was a black one with a generic white American accent. It just got my curiosity going as to whether my finding that odd was an indication of my slanted upbringing or whether it had some root in reality.

ABC123, you started out with an okay response but then you had to throw out deliberate condescension, as if to notarize the post as yours with your characteristic perfection of prick-ness. Calling someone as a person "naive" [sic], as opposed to his ideas, without knowing jack shit about him would probably get you kicked off the college debate team. I do remember one time you said my opinion on anything was null because I was a catholic from Indiana or something like that, so I'm kind of under the impression that you perceive ALL goyum as imbecilic trivialities, not just the Palestinian ones. I take it you've had experiences with oppression that makes you qualified to talk about everything beyond what the naïve others could ever understand. My guess is that you have my international experiences pegged as a band trip on a tour bus traveling to every McDonald's from Venice to Paris. Whatever, just get over yourself. If you didn't even know the history of the Septuagint, you don't even make for a good representative of your own culture that's way more important than any other.
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 03:55 AM       
" Yes. I, with no exception, agree with your views. GOD YOU'RE A RETARD! WHAT THE FUCK?! "
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 06:15 AM       
I'm not in a college debate team, and I could care less what your religion is - but it's true, you're observations read to me as that of a sheltered kid from the Midwest puzzled by the cultural differences/commonalities that someone from a melting pot city might take for granted. Chicago isn't exactly white bread though... so it must be you. Ultimately we're talking about your interpretation of these inflections, and that perception is colored by experience, and exposure to varied cultures. You've made a clear stereotype of what you think I'm all about, and half of it, if not more, is based on unsubstantiated assumptions you've collected through life experience or maybe even observations. Take something from that and apply it towards your own question.
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 10:23 AM       
I saw a documentary on racial differences in speech, once. It concluded that there is very little, if anything, genetic about it. It comes mostly from culture and, more importantly, from parents.

Seth mentioned blacks in england even having a certain inflection. What is known as the "black voice" of english can be traced to Gullah, an english dialect used in... some carribean island. I can't remember which one. Anyway, whitey apparently got lots of slaves there, and the inflections dissipated throughout the generations. It may be here to stay in America, since the accent is part of African-American culture, but, given a couple more generations in England, it could very well totally blend into the norm.
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Sethomas Sethomas is offline
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 10:57 AM       
Speaking of perceptions, yours of me strike me as if you see yourself in an inflated sense of importance coupled with an inflated worth of whatever experiences you've had, so anyone who hasn't had a life exactly like you're own is terminally ignorant. We're all subjective, and I play by those rules. Don't pretend like you're omniscient, it just colors you more as the prick you gleefully present yourself to be. So, whatever. If you're convinced that I'm "sheltered", go on. It doesn't mean you're right though.
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Courage the Cowardly Dog Courage the Cowardly Dog is offline
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 07:07 PM       
I know a big gay black guy who talks in the will and grace voice just so people can tell he's gay.

I have a thick european acent that makes all the locals think I'm gay until they see my hot wife.
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DuFresne DuFresne is offline
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 07:25 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Courage the Cowardly Dog
I have a thick european acent
you're gonna have to be more specific, dude! there's a lot of Europe over there!
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Courage the Cowardly Dog Courage the Cowardly Dog is offline
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 07:39 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuFresne
Quote:
Originally Posted by Courage the Cowardly Dog
I have a thick european acent
you're gonna have to be more specific, dude! there's a lot of Europe over there!
Lets just say I don't sound liek something the beverly hillbillys threw up so I sound wierd over here.

German btw.
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Sethomas Sethomas is offline
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 09:46 PM       
Bavarian? Prussian? Low German-speakers don't exactly look kindly on Müncheners in terms of how they talk.
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Courage the Cowardly Dog Courage the Cowardly Dog is offline
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 09:59 PM       
I don't care how anyone talks but if I use two syllable words here i get blank stares. Missouri is not one of the brighter states.

But hey at least we aren't California, am I right?
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Old Sep 17th, 2006, 10:11 PM       
The only reasons I'd ever willingly go to Missouri are:

1. To buy hundreds of dollars worth of fireworks.
2...Actually, Missouri is just there to sell fireworks.
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Courage the Cowardly Dog Courage the Cowardly Dog is offline
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Old Sep 18th, 2006, 06:23 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juttin
The only reasons I'd ever willingly go to Missouri are:

1. To buy hundreds of dollars worth of fireworks.
2...Actually, Missouri is just there to sell fireworks.
thats pretty accurate, I have as many fireworks laying around my house as my neighbors have guns you couldn't buy in other states.

Besides Silver Dollar City is fun and Branson..... well... Silver dollar city is
fun.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Sep 18th, 2006, 09:02 AM       
"ABC123, you started out with an okay response but then you had to throw out deliberate condescension, as if to notarize the post as yours with your characteristic perfection of prick-ness. "


See? It isn't just me, Anchfgsmdgf. You really are a serious Prick. You should see someone about that. You don't want to die alone.
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