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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 5th, 2003, 11:49 AM        TURKEY: An Ally we cannot afford
That we are going to war seems a forgone conclusion.

Lets hope and pray Turkey does not allow us the use of their country.

I hope this not for the reasons you might think. Turkey is an ally we CANNOT afford.

We offered a large sum of aid. Their Parliament refused, largely because the vast majority of their populattion don't want to do it. If the government of Turkey changes it's mind over the next few days it will almost certainly be becuase we've given them the one thing they want that hasn't been onb the table yet.

Northern Iraq.

The Turks don't want a Kurdish dominated state on their border. They don't want a place for their own Kurdish seperatists to find safe haven and support. They do want thier Troopps in Northern Iraq. If we let them, we will have forfitted any chance of stability in the region, screwed the Kurds yet gain and thrown away evn the thinnest appearance of moral high ground.

In addition, the only country as sanctioned by the UN as Iraq is Turkey. Well, and Israel, but thats not important, we have a 'special relationship' with them and soldiers bulldozing houses with Pregnant women still in them is no big deal when you have a 'special relationship'.


You know what? If you save one innocent life, I think crushing pregnant womn with bulldozers is acceptable.
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Buffalo Tom Buffalo Tom is offline
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Old Mar 5th, 2003, 12:00 PM       
Isn't it funny that to bring democracy to Iraq, the Bush Administration is willing to take democracy away in other parts of the world?
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Mar 5th, 2003, 12:01 PM       
Quote:
You know what? If you save one innocent life, I think crushing pregnant womn with bulldozers is acceptable.

Christian, even.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 5th, 2003, 12:06 PM       
Shock and Awe, baby. The USA GIVETH and it TAKETH AWAY! Laws, laws, it sure do TAKETH AWAY!!

This one is going to be hard to source, but who recalls this moment in Politcial history?

When Saddam brutally crushed a Kurdish uprising the CIA and Bush I had encouraged (but much to the Kurds suprise did not support in any other way) shortly after the end of Gulf War part I, reporters tried to get a comment from The president. They found him playing golf with none other than W. Poppy told the press to leave him alone, he was relaxing. The only excat quote I feel confident about was "Like Father, like Son." And some people say history isn't funny.
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BombsBurstingInAir BombsBurstingInAir is offline
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Old Mar 5th, 2003, 01:35 PM       
Could be that Turkey doesn't want to look as though it is being bought off to use their land.
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Old Mar 5th, 2003, 01:58 PM       
Turkey will most likely overturn their decision last minute. They wont want to deal with the Iraqi Kurds in northern Iraq, post Saddam. $15bill doesnt sound too bad to some po' ass niggas either
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Old Mar 5th, 2003, 03:49 PM       
Quite correct.

I'm saying even from a Republican stand point, it isn't worth the money, and it sure as hell isn't worth letting them into Northern Iraq.

I would put money on the table, we let Turkish soldiers across that border, and there will be hell to pay.

I cannot think of a political perspctive tht would make an alliance with Turkey worth the convenience of using their land.
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Mar 5th, 2003, 04:12 PM       
Admittedly I just skimmed some of the responses after the intial opening, so if I am repeating someone, I'm just an idiot.

The reason, I believe, why Turkey requested such an absurd amount, was an effort to soothe the ruffled feathers of both the US, whom has always maintained a tight relationship (equally beneficial, though in no ways EQUALLY beneficial, if you take my meaning) and their Middle Eastern neighbours whom dislike the idea of US presence - Nor should we forget any possibly terrorist strikes which their full cooperation may result in.

I believe they very much wish to aide us, but do not feel that they can publically, or even privately, take such a stance in such a volatile region.

By asking for the money, they can tell their neighbours "Look, it was an unrealistic figure, and they would never pay it." And to the Americans "Hey, we offered. You just didn't want to cough up the dough"

While on a Politically Saavy scale, this rates about a three, its not a bad manoeuvre all said and done.
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Old Mar 5th, 2003, 09:34 PM       
"I cannot think of a political perspctive tht would make an alliance with Turkey worth the convenience of using their land."

Man, I really need to learn how to do those cool little quotation text box thingees.

Anyway, Max, I agree. There is no rational political reason as to why the alliance is worth it. But the use of their land is vitally important. From a strategic standpoint, the use of Turkey, particularly in the southeast, dramatically facilitates a military campaign.

Not being able to use southeastern turkey (I'm pretty sure they won't be oppossed to allowing us access through Incirlik) completely changes the logistics of the ground campagin, and forces a less desiralbe plan of action.

It is my guess that we have pandered to the Turks so extensively for no other reason than their geopgraphy. The lack of Turkish airbases effectively limits the amount of air power the USAF will be able to use. The air power it will be able to mobolize will require much greater logistical support in a tactical sense just to get to and from the target area. At least initially, the Turks decision shifts the bulk of the air campaign responsibility from the Air Force to the Navy.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 6th, 2003, 09:58 AM       
Strategically, Turkey is desireable, no question. But the reality (I think) of such an alliance will bring nothing but grief and greatly increase the risk of disasterous quagmire in post war Iraq.

We will be seen as having bribed a government to ignore the overwhleming will of it's people, and if the Turks enter into conflict with Iraqi Kurds, who have promised they will if Turkish soldiers cross the border, we will be held accountable. Northern Iraq has functioned independantly under our protection for ten years. They are, in all prcatice, autonous. If we allow Turkey to occupy this region, we will have sold the Kurds for our own war aims.
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