Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 05:03 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One and Only...
Actually, idealism is a very broad metaphysical view that holds that all reality is made up of ideas. Essentially, the view maintains that there is no matter, only the mind. It is the opposite of materialism because it maintains that there is no mind, only matter.

A good example of a subjective idealist would be Berkley.
Most Idealists acknowledge the existence of a material world, but they find it vastly inferior to their static, unchanging "true world" of ideas that is reached through rational thought.

AND BY THE WAY, HOW DID THIS THREAD REACH A DISCUSSION ABOUT IDEALISM/MATERIALISM/HEDONISM? Must every thread be dominated and mutated by OAO?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 05:10 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtificialBrandon
Most Idealists acknowledge the existence of a material world, but they find it vastly inferior to their static, unchanging "true world" of ideas that is reached through rational thought.
WRONG. NO idealist acknowledges a material world. Many acknowledge an objective, existing world, but they do not believe that it is material.

Quote:
AND BY THE WAY, HOW DID THIS THREAD REACH A DISCUSSION ABOUT IDEALISM/MATERIALISM/HEDONISM? Must every thread be dominated and mutated by OAO?
Considering I did post it...
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 05:17 PM       
Quote:
Considering I did post it...
Yeah, but you can't even stick to the subject of your own threads.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 05:17 PM       
So?
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Brandon Brandon is offline
The Center Square
Brandon's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Migrant worker
Brandon is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 05:19 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One and Only...
So?
YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

HEY EVERYBODY! WHO WANTS TO TALK ABOUT LIBERTARIANISM?
Reply With Quote
  #56  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 05:58 PM       
Why not quantum mechanics?

I HOLD THAT THE UNIVERSE IS STILL DETERMINISTIC BY NATURE, AND SUPPORT EINSTEIN'S THEORY OF HIDDEN VARIABLES!!! SCREW THE COPENHAGEN INTERPRETATION!!!
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 06:31 PM       
I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 06:33 PM       
I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids.I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids.I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids.I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids. I will not make fun of older kids.
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 06:34 PM       
I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.I will not make fun of little kids. I will not make fun of little kids.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 06:47 PM       
I'm sorry Max, but you can't win me over with such flirtations.
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 07:50 PM       
Quote:
WRONG. NO idealist acknowledges a material world. Many acknowledge an objective, existing world, but they do not believe that it is material.
COCK. Most idealists agree there's a material world, but they make simple arguments about how the sensory input a human recieves from it is prone to error (one hand in cold water, one in warm and then both in a basin of lukewarm water etc etc) and thusly not to be trusted. The whole premise of Idealism is that one can only truly understand and experience something in the realm of ideas. Read some Plato and stop trying to be a smartass. You don't know everything. Read 'The Cave of Ideas' in Socrates' dialogue with Protagoras and then you can claim to have an oppinion on Idealism. And don't use CAPITALISED WORDS for EMPHASIS it only makes you look STUPID.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 10:55 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helm
That's what hedonism basically is, satan boy. Well, it's a bit more complicated than that, but he basically weighed out the pros and cons of any given indulgence, and social profit or lack thereof, was a big factor towards control. Hedonism as overindulgence in vice is a popular but mistaken application of the word. Much like how idealism is commonly and mistakenly used to protray as a characteristic, he who adheres to high-minded ideals, whereas idealism truly is an ontological philosophy adhering to the premise that there is an ideal, static world which we fail to fully comprehend, due to sensory limitation. In many ways opposite to materialism. But it's good enough that an american knows who Epicuros is, so I shouldn't complain.
I was mistaken about Epicurus (now that I've done some homework) - he actually was an egoistic hedonist. He thought a simple and virtuous life and the limiting of desires (rather than their indulgence) was the best path to pleasure, though, which is the information I was going on. I had a hard time reconciling hedonism with the kind of ascetic life Epicurus advocated.

And I do know what hedonism is; I claim to be a hedonist myself.

*waits for the predictable response*
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Drew Katsikas Drew Katsikas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Drew Katsikas is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 11:25 PM       
If philosophies and moral standards are based off human feeling/passion/emotion etc.. does anyone feel that expressing opinions and beliefs about such things are lost with such jargon as objective idealistic material subjective hedonistic metaphysical? Reading all your posts is like a some kind of annyoing pedantic code.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Dec 27th, 2003, 11:52 PM       
It's not pedantic if there aren't better words to use and everyone in the discussion understands them. It's easier to say "hedonism" than "philosophy based on seeking pleasure," easier to say "subjective" than "something that is different from one person to another," and easier to say "metaphysical" than "outside the realm of physics." Jargon is created to label things in order to make discussion less wordy and easier to understand; if you don't get the words, read a damn dictionary. Or propose a better way to do it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Drew Katsikas Drew Katsikas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Drew Katsikas is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 12:03 AM       
granted, they are convenient in many cases, and I know what they all mean, but sometimes they drive you away from the point. Example: Hedonism, is a philosophy on acting out of almost animal instinct, a looking out for # 1 ideal. When you load your discussions about this with objective idealistic metaphysical etc, and you yourself are a hedonist, your partaking in a very formal sophisticated activity, rather than the primitive or rather, as some poeple may see it, counter-productive stance you hold. It just seems slightly paradoxical.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 12:06 AM       
I wasn't in on the discussion of metaphysics, objectivism, and idealism in this thread. But regardless..

How is posting on a message board about philosophy or doing anything formal and sophisticated counter-productive to pleasure? Maybe it pleases me to discuss these things.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Drew Katsikas Drew Katsikas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Drew Katsikas is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 12:19 AM       
yeah, I'm streching it. I'm associating hedonism with a sort of primitive anti-community anti-productive sentiment.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 01:23 AM       
That'd be social nihilism. Another fun jargon term for you.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 01:23 AM       
..and it would be misleading for you to do so because whereas hedonism is inherently atavistic, it does depend on social structure in order to fully exploit a wider spectrum of pleasure. As to your original question, DrewKatsikas, no, I do not feel using proper terminology when dealing with philosophy harms one's point in any way. Language is faulty enough a method of communication as it is without having to dumb down one's vocabulary. As long as we'e using the same definitions for our philosophical terms, then we're going to be okay. For example, your definition of hedonism below is faulty in many ways. What you described more likely is some sort of nonholistic egoism. I suggest research on your part.

Quote:
egoistic hedonism
As if there's some other sort ?... I do not see how you were confused.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 01:39 AM       
I wasn't aware at first that Epicurus's simple ascetic lifestyle could qualify as hedonism.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 01:44 AM       
There's nothing ascetic about epicuros :O
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 01:52 AM       
My sources must be misinformed then; this one says he favored a "moderately ascetic life" and this one refers to the satisfaction of basic needs and the indulgence in luxuries only so long as they are readily available.

"...in our present lives we need only live a simple life..."
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 02:05 AM       
The choice of words is misleading. Ascetic suggests that one chooses not to indulge his basic instincts. Epicuros did nothing of the sort. Anyway, by bad I guess since I was just going by the popula definition of ascetisism
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Drew Katsikas Drew Katsikas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Drew Katsikas is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 02:14 AM       
Well, Helm, I'm saying, now that I've been enlightened by Pern, wouldn't it be more sensible if you were a so called social-nihilist to say, rather than "I'm a social nihilist", "I do what I fucking want?"
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old Dec 28th, 2003, 02:48 AM       
No because even if the two were the same (they aren't) the fact that you choose to use such a definition suggests historical and philosophical semiotic value the layman statement doesn't. For example, for me when a person says "I am the only one that exists", it is quite different from a person that says "I am a solipsist" even for the simple fact that the latter is more likely to be familiar with the finer points of said philosophical concept, since he can name it.

But the more important reason remains that no philosophical concept can be summed up in a layman-friendly concise sentence.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:09 PM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.