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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 09:03 AM        It's not the offense, it's the cover-up
Okay, the fact that the offense is sexually explicit harrassment of minors by the co chair of the comitte that's supposed to protect sexually exploited children means the foofense is a pretty big deal too.

Plus, it's gay harrassment, which wouldn't be more fuel to the fire than was already there if this guy wern't a Republican, or anyway shouldn't be.

Oh, and it's election time, that ought to magnify things a little.

But the cover up looks kind of like the Republicans were trying to keep the info under wraps until the elections were over so they could hold onto the seat. So maybe the cover up is bigger.

But isn't this really just an ugly, tawdry little sex story? Yes, it's bad, but is it significant and something the whole country ought to get in an uproar about when there are really much more importnat things going on in the world? I mean, it's not as if there's a blue dress involved here.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 10:46 AM       
Whoah. I haven't been following the news for a while. What the hell did I miss?!
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 11:01 AM       
MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- Former Rep. Mark Foley is in an alcoholism treatment center three days after resigning from Congress amid allegations that he sent inappropriate messages to teenage pages.

A letter containing the information was faxed by Foley to WPBF-TV in West Palm Beach, said David Roth, Foley's attorney, on Monday.

"Painfully, the events that led to my resignation have crystallized recognition of my longstanding significant alcohol and emotional difficulties," Foley wrote. "I strongly believe that I am an alcoholic and have accepted the need for immediate treatment for alcoholism and related behavioral problems."

Foley said he deeply regrets and accepts "full responsibility for the harm that I have caused."

He said in the letter that "with the loving support of my family and friends," he made arrangements on Saturday to enter "a renowned in-patient facility to address my disease and related issues."

He said he has instructed Roth to cooperate "fully and completely" regarding "any inquiries that may arise during my treatment."

The fax was apparently sent from Clearwater, Florida, but Roth would not say Monday if that's where Foley is being treated.

Meanwhile, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement said Monday it was launching an investigation into allegations Foley sent sexually suggestive e-mails to pages.

FDLE spokesman Tom Berlinger said that the agency on Sunday contacted the FBI -- which is looking into whether any federal laws were broken in the matter -- to inform federal authorities of the Florida probe.

The state agency will be trying to determine whether any of Foley's alleged communications originated in Florida.
Justice Department considering investigation

The Justice Department, at the request of House Speaker Dennis Hastert, also is considering an investigation of how lawmakers handled the allegations against Foley. (Watch how and when House leaders found out about alleged e-mails -- 2:05)

The rare move by Hastert followed calls by Democratic leaders in the House and Senate for a swift inquiry, questioning whether the GOP leadership in the House had improperly squelched concerns about Foley's contacts with pages.

The Florida Republican resigned Friday after his e-mail and instant-message contacts with pages were reported by the media.

Foley, a six-term Florida congressman, was co-chairman of the Missing and Exploited Children's Caucus and a prominent backer of legislation to crack down on online predators and criminalize child pornography on the Internet. (Watch how politics inspired Foley at age 6 -- 2:44 Video)

The House voted to launch an investigation of his dealings with pages. But in a letter to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Hastert urged the Justice Department to look into who knew about the content of any sexually explicit messages involving Foley "and what actions such individuals took, if any, to provide them to law enforcement." (Watch why the speaker wants an investigation -- 2:34 Video)

Justice Department spokesman Brian Roehrkasse said the department will review "whether we can conduct an investigation."

Hastert, an Illinois Republican, also asked the Justice Department and Florida Gov. Jeb Bush to investigate whether the former lawmaker violated federal or state law.

Earlier Sunday, White House Counselor Dan Bartlett said he expected a criminal investigation. The administration was unaware of the Foley allegations until last week, he said.
Replacing Foley on ballot

Top House Republicans have said they were aware months ago of e-mail contact between Foley and a teenage male page, but that they had no knowledge of sexually explicit messages that have subsequently come to light.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said House Republican leaders knew of the Foley allegations and "chose to cover it up rather than to protect these children."

In a letter to the leaders of the Ethics Committee, the California Democrat said that GOP leaders should be questioned under oath immediately and that a preliminary report should be issued within 10 days.

After Hastert's request for an investigation, she said the Ethics Committee still needs to look into the actions of the GOP leadership. "Congress must not pass the buck on investigating this cover-up," she said.

In a brief resignation statement, Foley apologized to his own family and constituents but did not mention the allegations.

After the e-mails were publicized, ABC News released instant text messages allegedly sent by the congressman to other teenage male pages in 2003. (More details)

The scandal comes just weeks before the November 7 midterm elections. Republicans are hurriedly trying to find someone to replace Foley. (Watch how the handling of the scandal puts the GOP on the defensive -- 2:40 Video)

Foley had been favored to defeat Democratic candidate Tim Mahoney and win re-election to a seventh term.

"The Republican leadership knew this was going on, and they had to make a choice," Mahoney said. "They decided to try to hold on to a seat."
Reynolds informed Hastert

Rep. Tom Reynolds, R-New York, said during the weekend that he told Hastert about the initial complaint -- that Foley had been e-mailing a 16-year-old Louisiana boy who had served as a page, asking for a picture of the teen and asking what he wanted for his birthday.

Reynolds chairs the National Republican Congressional Committee, which is the election campaign arm for House Republicans.

Reynolds said that when Rep. Rodney Alexander, R-Louisiana, told him about the e-mails, he said the teen's parents didn't want the matter pursued. Alexander was the boy's sponsor.

After an initial denial, Hastert's office said Reynolds brought up the issue of the e-mails in a meeting with the speaker earlier this year.

Reynolds told Hastert in that meeting that an investigation had been done by Rep. John Shimkus and the clerk of the House, who manages the work-study program for youths under 18. Shimkus is an Illinois Republican and chairman of the House Page Board.

Rep. Dale Kildee, the only Democratic member of the House Page Board, insisted Saturday the board did not investigate Foley.

Boehner learned about allegations against Foley from Alexander in the spring, said Kevin Madden, the majority leader's spokesman.

Shimkus said Foley told him he was only mentoring the teen in the first complaint and was concerned about his fate after Hurricane Katrina.

Shimkus said he warned Foley "to cease all contact with this former House page" -- and he said Foley assured him the e-mails would stop.

Approximately 100 youths age 16 and older serve as congressional pages at any one time. Both boys and girls may serve, usually for a semester or two or a summer session, according to congressional documents.





I read the instant message texts ABC put out. While you can certainly make the argument that they are not harassment, they are far more graphic than the emails that started the ball rolling on this scandall. He taks at length about masturbation with the page, tals about how hard he is, misspells the word 'bulge', asks him to measure his erection, etc, etc.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 11:11 AM       
Do the transcripts really need to be read? Ugh, someone on the radio this morning was reading them while I was having breakfast.

Telling me this asshole was trying to have sex with underage boys working in his office (or Congress, whatever) is pretty much enough to make me think he belongs out of office and in jail.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:02 PM       
As far as 'The Public's need to Know', I totally agree with you.

Unfortunately, the precedent for this kind of stuff getting published was set back when every news outlet in America told us what Clinton was using as a humidor.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:24 PM       
Thank you, Ken Starr.

I really don't need to know more than 'there was sexual miscodnuct with underage interns." Even that is pushing it. I'm willing to put my faith in the investigators or whoever is the proper authorities in this case that they can judge what is and isn't proper.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:31 PM       
Oh, so you were expecting actual journalism rather than tabloid-style entertainment coverage of the events.

Yeah... Sorry, that doesn't exist anymore. You might want to check the 1990's.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:40 PM       
If I was Ken Starr, I'd accept your thanks. Or is that what you meant, that he's the one who deserves it?

Actually, Blanco, I agree with you, but I think the public hunger for purient details more than justifes the media's approach if you think of it in terms of free market capitalism.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:46 PM       
Maaaan. I quit politics. It's so much bullshit.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:47 PM       
Sure, but what are you wearing?
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:54 PM       
I'm pretty sure he was thanking Ken Starr, not calling you Ken Starr.

The media wasn't protected under the First to assure it's profitability. A profitable press has always meant a sensationalist one, at best, corrupt and dishonest at worst. I'm a die-hard capitalist fanboy, but even I see the need for regulating principle over profit in this one case. Unfortunately, that's just not something we can safely rely on government to do, as the media's primary function is to keep tabs on the government.

The teeming masses want to be entertained, not informed, and the government we are supposed to be wary of would want that, too. Maybe First Amendment protections need to be re-evalutated so as to apply only to actual principled journalists and not everybody even indirectly linked to the media. Is there possibly a measure of integrity we could come up with everyone could trust?
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 12:58 PM       
Just to be clear, I'm only commenting on the sub-topic here... I am in no way in favor of Max or anyone else sexually molesting Geggy or any other teenager.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 01:22 PM       
Psst I'm 30 y/o so it wouldn't count as molesting

You have a point though. The media benefits from all of this. But why is it a such big deal? Maybe there was a reason for the coverup. Someone wanted to withhold the information until the time is right to blackmail the person or to release the info to turn it into a larger issue to distract everyone from other more serious, emerging issues that'd inflict the responsibles.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 03:39 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbank
If I was Ken Starr, I'd accept your thanks. Or is that what you meant, that he's the one who deserves it?
I'm giving him the "credit" for this type of shit.

You should remember, did the whole Monkey Bussiness fiasco get this much attention and detail?

Quote:
Actually, Blanco, I agree with you, but I think the public hunger for purient details more than justifes the media's approach if you think of it in terms of free market capitalism.
But shouldn't the demand for a reliable and honest press balance that? Or am I putting too much faith in people?
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 04:11 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preechr
The teeming masses want to be entertained, not informed, and the government we are supposed to be wary of would want that, too.
See why I am less and less fond of democracy?

Quote:
Maybe First Amendment protections need to be re-evalutated so as to apply only to actual principled journalists and not everybody even indirectly linked to the media.
No, the Constitution uses the phrase "right of the people", not "large newspapers" or "responsible media". It is our job to keep the media in check.

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Is there possibly a measure of integrity we could come up with everyone could trust?
Nope, because you'd essentially have the government watch dogging its own watchdog. Somewhat a conflict of interests.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 04:25 PM       
I'm just being sarcastic, Blanco. I completely agree with you on this issue, and I also agree there's no way at all to do it. If people stopped buying sensationalist crap, people would stop selling it. An when nobody rubbernecks at an accident, there will be fewer traffic jams.

The issue I see here (beyond the one coverd by Foley's resignation) is if there was indeed an effort to ignore this by leadership. And you don't need the 'get a ruler' quotes to investigate that.

On the other hand, I'd feel I got gyped if I hadn't read the transcripts of Bill Oreilly's phone sex harrassment calls. So go figure.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 04:42 PM       
I know I mentioned this in another thread but didn't thomas jefferson say that the newspaper is the most important part of a democracy? lol

It's kind of ridiculous to have a system based on giving stupid people the right to involve themselves in an issue that requires a certain amount of intellect. Newspapers are supposed to inform the democratic masses so that they can make "reasonable" decisions. This is why democracy, among many other reasons, fails. As long as we have stupid people making decisions then we are going to have stupid decisions with bad results.
The only remedy is intelligent, informed people, but for the most part that's not really in the "Government's" "best interest". It's also not in the interest of the masses who are more interested in sex than anything else. I guess that's what happens when you have a system of government not only based on stupid people's decisions but also on providing their animal instincts with everything it could possibly desire for personal profit and self gain. Our country is basically ran by animals.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 10:32 PM       
Drudge claims that the Washington Times will call for Hastert's resignation tomorrow.
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Old Oct 2nd, 2006, 10:40 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by kahljorn
Our country is basically ran by animals.
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Old Oct 3rd, 2006, 08:39 AM       
I also want to say how wonderful it is that scumbag predators like this are writing these laws and also want to tell me how to be a moral, upstanding adult.

These are the assholes that take a much needed port security law and attach a rider that makes online gambling next to impossible. Why? To protect the children. Actually, its to stir up some votes with their uber-Christian far right wing base.

I'm pretty certain 54 year old Cengressmen now pose a greater threat to children than BoDog.

Enough of this shit. I'm running for office. I'm old enough. I just need to find out where I can run and what I can run for.

I've even got a campaign slogan.

RAISE YOUR OWN DAMN KIDS!


sorry for the rant. I'm a little pissed this morning.
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Old Oct 3rd, 2006, 08:55 AM       
I'll vote for you.
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Old Oct 3rd, 2006, 12:51 PM       
Me too! Hell, I'll work in your campaign!!
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Old Oct 3rd, 2006, 02:18 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preechr
Quote:
Originally Posted by kahljorn
Our country is basically ran by animals.
Were you agreeing with me or what? People who buy sensationalist shit are animals, animals place the entirety of their existence into their senses. Human beings are supposed to have a higher capacity
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Old Oct 3rd, 2006, 02:21 PM       
You may have to move to New Jersey.

My first two promises:

To push laws that actually effect the common good. There is no need to pay cops for enforcing retarded vice laws when there are crimes that actually harm people happening.

To use my position to pull in premium ass. No chubby interns for me. I'll be bagging women that will make you proud to say, "He is my elected official."*




* They will all be of legal age, unmarried (as far as I'll know), and not actually work for me.
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Old Oct 3rd, 2006, 02:55 PM       
And they will be dudes.
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