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Lenor · #51

There needs to be less emphasis paid out on the 'war on drugs', yet more on the majority of the publics inability to see a doctor.

-Canada has free health insurance for everyone that is a citizen.
-Holland's prime minister (correct me if wrong) put in effect drug laws that are ALMOST non-punishable, but rather one's own choice and ability to seek treatment for addiction at any time.
-Amsterdam has the annual CANNABIS CUP!

Why does the US have to Suck so damn much?

kahljorn · #52

*sigh*
do you do that on purpose?

Preechr · #53

Quote:

Originally Posted by derrida

No, you are right- going down the line we have those "greatest generation" people of the state, their great society hippie progeny, and an enormous alphabet soup cohort saddled with daddy issues plus an extended childhood thanks to the "Everybody goes to college!" mentality.

Still, I'm not totally sold. At the same time people were all about "government is the problem" and all acquiescing to the Welfare Reform Bill, the rhetoric on drugs was firmly in support of three-strikes and zero-tolerance. Why? Why was the Anti-Drug Abuse Act, which vastly extended the field of potential convicts to include drug users, passed in 1986 and not 1996? Why is it that in Canada, nanny-state par excellence, the main impedence to wholesale legalization is pressure from the US? (I am most curious about this last question)

It seems you're trying to draw a line between the Democrat version of the WOSD and the Republican version... They are pretty much the same at the national level. Even as the kids these days grow up, the ideological split on the issue will most likely stay mostly similar to what it is now and what it has been for 100 years. I was at a customers house the other day, and there was an episode of Little House on the Prairie on the tube that addressed opium addiction stemming from treatment in the Civil War, so you can tell just by that this has been a problem for a while, right?

Seriously, though, narcotics were only classified and outlawed at the beginning of the last century. In the larger sense, you are correct that this sort of thing has been a tool of governance for basically forever, but only modern government styles have become powerful enough to realize the dream of actually effectively outlawing and profiting from this sort of extensive regulation.

As for our pressure on Canada, I don't see why that's so hard for you to understand. It seems obvious that we are protecting our racket. The War on Some Drugs is big business, yo.

I'd love for this to open up to some real conservatives. There really are some here on the board. El Blanco? IS? I bet there some of you out there with kids that have developed some pretty old fashioned attitudes about drug legalization. Let's hash this out, so to say...

I see a lot of integrity in the pure conservative ideological stance on the issue: There are some mistakes not worth the risk of making. I wonder where the line lies exactly, and who draws it.

Just to put it out there, while I've done drugs before, I don't now and probably won't be. I take Aleve, and that's about it. Mine is what I consider to be another sort of pure ideological stance.

Lenor · #54

OH FUCK IN A'

What did I do now?

noob3 · #55

legalize weed - tax weed - farmers make money - goverment makes money - goverment uses money to promote drug education - less ppl do drugs - goverment stops war on drugs - goverment saves alot of money - goverment actually helps the people out instead of arresting them - happy people

the cigarette tax goes directly to anti cigarette education & thus ppl don't smoke as much this could be applied with drugs guys

vote noob3 for office!!!

derrida · #56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preechr

It seems you're trying to draw a line between the Democrat version of the WOSD and the Republican version... They are pretty much the same at the national level. Even as the kids these days grow up, the ideological split on the issue will most likely stay mostly similar to what it is now and what it has been for 100 years. I was at a customers house the other day, and there was an episode of Little House on the Prairie on the tube that addressed opium addiction stemming from treatment in the Civil War, so you can tell just by that this has been a problem for a while, right?

Seriously, though, narcotics were only classified and outlawed at the beginning of the last century. In the larger sense, you are correct that this sort of thing has been a tool of governance for basically forever, but only modern government styles have become powerful enough to realize the dream of actually effectively outlawing and profiting from this sort of extensive regulation. They outlawed the regulation? TALK GOOD my man.

As for our pressure on Canada, I don't see why that's so hard for you to understand. It seems obvious that we are protecting our racket. The War on Some Drugs is big business, yo. No, I was more asking about why, under your model, the political climate in Canada strongly favors legalization, despite widespread support for nanny-state type shit.

I'd love for this to open up to some real conservatives. There really are some here on the board. El Blanco? IS? I bet there some of you out there with kids that have developed some pretty old fashioned attitudes about drug legalization. Let's hash this out, so to say...

I see a lot of integrity in the pure conservative ideological stance on the issue: There are some mistakes not worth the risk of making. I wonder where the line lies exactly, and who draws it.

Just to put it out there, while I've done drugs before, I don't now and probably won't be. I take Aleve, and that's about it. Mine is what I consider to be another sort of pure ideological stance.

Personally, I'd rather risk a few more people struggling with drug addiction (or not, considering that for people who can afford a pure supply and don't make dosage errors, heroin is a remarkably safe drug) than to put huge sums of money in the hands of criminals (and the people we pay to arrest, try, and incarcerate those criminals' footsoldiers and couriers). Kind of far from being a pure ideological stance...

_______

ItalianStereotype · #57

legalize weed - make purchase or possession of pipes, papers, and bongs a capital offense - be done with stoners and hippies - average IQ in the U.S. increases 50 points.

noob3 · #58

smoke out of a hooka or a ornamental glass table piece OR A FUCKING HOLLOWED CIGAR (we call those blunts ya hurr)

MetalMilitia · #59

People, in general, are far too stupid to be allowed to do anything which could be abused. As such any kind of legalisation probably wouldn't do much more than increase Adult Swim's viewing figures by a few million and reduce the number of people that make it though college.

As for using cannabis taxes to increase education, do you really think that would do anything? They shove cigarette ads in everyone's face hundreds of times a day but yet there are still around 10 million cigarettes sold every minute.

That said I don't think people should be prosecuted for possession of small amounts. Which is pretty much how the law works in the UK.

kahljorn · #60

Metalmilitia, i think that's the only redeeming feature of the pharmaceutical industry -- that they can protect us from our own abusive tendencies since they are essentially rationing out drugs.
Pills are still unsafe and easily abusable, though. I'm not sure of the statistics exactly but I'm almost positive there are more deaths and addictions resulting from legal drugs than there are from illegal drugs. Whether that's misleading because there are a lot more people doing legal drugs than illegal drugs.. though

I wouldn't be surprised if the rate of addiction and resulting deaths is along the same lines, though.

MetalMilitia · #61

In terms of their effect on the body, drugs like alcohol are much more harmful than THC (the active chemical in cannabis). However I think the world is sufficiently fucked up to not need another substance legalised that basically makes you want to sit in front of idiot cartoons and eat junk food.

Don't get me wrong; I used to be a big proponent of cannabis legalisation and I can appreciate many of the benefits its legalisation would afford. But I just don't think English OR American society (especially young people) are responsible enough to be given access to a new, potentially-life-fucking-up, substance.

In my opinion possession laws should be relaxed, but cannabis should never be sold over the counter.

noob3 · #62

i would much rather be perscriped pills that got me high than to buy weed on a regular basis if i got perscriped some bomb thc pills, that'd be great :o i'm in my first semester of college and i want to quit smoking herb because i am not getting A's or anything and i forget alot of stuf

kahljorn · #63

yea, I'm barely getting a's in all my classes this year because I'm really lazy, i never study or do anything ;o
luckily im naturally smart so i can still sail through but it's annoying to be at like an 80 something and wonder if you're going to get an a.

Ninjavenom · #64

how the fuck can you outlaw nature? Why not outlaw poison ivy? Nobody likes that, either.

kahljorn · #65

I think every drug was illegalized for bullshit reasons

like i think opium or something was illegalized because, besides some other reasons, it makes black people rape white people. That's basically what got all the white people to vote it away. Democracies are shit.

MetalMilitia one thing is that do you think alcohol is a better drug for college students? I think that it probably interferes with learning more than THC, but who knows, really.

derrida · #66

No man, opium was banned cuz of chinese dudes. Cocaine was blacks, marijuana was mainly mexicans (and also blacks)

kahljorn · #67

we should outlaw jimson weed too that shit's dangerous ;o ;o ;o; o ;o ;o ;o ;o ;o ;o ;o ;o ;o ;o ;o ;o o; ;o ;o ;o ;o o; ; ; ;o ;;;o; ; ; ;o ;o

MetalMilitia · #68

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahljorn

MetalMilitia one thing is that do you think alcohol is a better drug for college students? I think that it probably interferes with learning more than THC, but who knows, really.

Actually yes. As bas as it is, alcohol probably is better for students. Please allow me to elaborate.

When people smoke weed they will usually do it at any time throughout the day; morning, noon or night. Whereas, people generally only drink in the evenings and on weekends. Once you're stoned it's pretty impossible to get anything done.
Of course if you drank or smoked in equal amounts, alcohol would be worse but I don't think real people do use them in the same way.

There is one exception to this; art students. They can take as many drugs as they want and their work will probably get better.

Lenor · #69

Metalmilitia, where in hell are you basing your theory on? For one, weed does not mentally or physically incapacitate you. You may eat a lot more, hence 'freshmen 15'(haha); But your body adjust after awhile and your still truckin on through to class.

Drinking Alcohol on the other-hand in college can be lethal. For example Fraternity Hazing, Pledging is not just a 'every weekend' event, rather an every night one. Sorority's and fraternities have been around for along time and make up a large percent of a college campus.

You could argue that 'Not Everyone lives on campus or wants to become some Delta Kappa Pie member!'. Ok, that is true. But what they do in their home life is not really apart of the 'college experience' and I do not believe to have that much relevance in this discussion.

Name a musician/band that has not done drugs, and I'll show you one that never made it famous.

MetalMilitia · #70

I'm basing my theory on the three/four years in which I smoked and did absolutely nothing with my life. Once I quit everything seemed to fall into place and I'm much happier for it.

Saying weed doesn't incapacitate you is rubbish. It makes you forgetful, absent minded and generally stoner-like.

Sure people can damage themselves much more with alcohol and I'm not advocating its use but as I say the different ways people use the two drugs often make alcohol the lesser evil.

Sure, a bunch of great bands take a shit-ton of drugs but does that really mean they should be legal?
I'll be willing to bet a lot of good music was written under the influence of much stronger substances than weed, so should those be legalised too? No.

Lenor · #71

Getting older makes you forgetful and absent minded also, we should make that illegal too!

Your basing a theory solely on yourself; thus an accurate study of the other billion's of people in this world, does not one make.

kahljorn · #72

Wow I'm actually impressed that lenor understands problems with induction but that's fine she probably learned it in class...

anyway, I agree with metalmilitia. Weed does make you lazy and not want to do anything. Or at least it makes you want to do fun things... but it's not exactly as if alcohol makes you want to sit down to study.
Usually i go to school stoned and such but that's not a big deal. The problem is when i come home and get stoned and dont do any of my homework, or really focus on my reading at all. I don't really think students who drink will be focusing on their reading and writing but i dont really know ;o
all i know is if i didnt smoke weed i probably wouldn't be as lazy and unconcerned so my grade would probably go up 2.5%.

MetalMilitia · #73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenor

Getting older makes you forgetful and absent minded also, we should make that illegal too!

A lot of old people die too, Lenor. Should we make drugs which make you die legal just because "OLD PEOPLE DIE ALL THE TIME!"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenor

Your basing a theory solely on yourself; thus an accurate study of the other billion's of people in this world, does not one make.

Well until you show me YOUR study of the other billions of people in the world, which proves that cannabis will not cause more problems in an already problem-filled society; my own experiences are all I have to go on.

Lenor · #74

You can also die from drowning in a teaspoon of water; LET'S IL-LEGALIZE WATER!

There are several studies done already; though not by myself. You can find some on:

www.erowid.org