Most bee-yoo-tee-ful girl in metal?

[Uncle Otto]

And no, the answer is not, in fact, Lacuna Coil's Cristina Scabbia.
My vote would go for Karyn from Crisis, Julie from Without Face, and that unnamed girl who appeared on the cover of Anathema's "Crestfallen" e.p. Right-- time to fry up some chips and then eat them Euro-style (i.e. with mayo!).

[Helm]

The gal in the cover of Serenades. Yes, you cannot see her face. No, it doesn't matter.

[CastroMotorOil]

this chick from Otep is pretty hot (that or Opeth i don't really listen to either band so im clueless as to which one it is).

[Ninjavenom]

Otep is the one with the shitty female singer. When people point me to Otep, i point them to Arch Enemy.

[Irwin M. Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Uncle Otto

And no, the answer is not, in fact, Lacuna Coil's Cristina Scabbia.

Ummm, sorry, but that is the clear answer.

Karyn Crisis? Are you fucking crazy?

[Professor Poddar]

Aversiononline? Isn't it your forum where all the old Terrorizer forumites went to? Brings me back to my youth...
Real kicker if any of the old regulars were still posting.
I agree with Otto-- Karyn Crisis! Tattooed and dredlocked women are gorgeous.

[Irwin M. Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Professor Poddar

Aversiononline? Isn't it your forum where all the old Terrorizer forumites went to? Brings me back to my youth... Real kicker if any of the old regulars were still posting.

Yes. Hell if I've been there in ages, though. I think the fools may have finally given up.

[Skulhedface]

You seem to be leaving the hottest of all out.

My Ruin's Tairrie B. God DAMN! That's enough to make the Pope kick Christ in the balls!

[BulletCatcher]

For once I agree with ninjavenom. Angela Gossick is fucking hot.

[Irwin M. Fletcher]

Originally Posted by BulletCatcher

For once I agree with ninjavenom. Angela Gossick is fucking hot.

Gossow. Not Gossick.

[Helm]

Anathema! Serenades! Chick on the cover!

[Professor Poddar]

Regardless of her looks, Angela Gossow is NOT a better vocalist than Johan Liiva. I'm possibly the only one who thinks this- she's vastly overrated, once the novelty of a female growler wears off. She has great stage presence, yes, but so did Johan-- did anyone catch A-E on their tour with Nevermore a few years back? Top frontman, that bloke.

Angela actually has a pretty weak Chuck Schuldiner-esque voice- she was originally hyped as having this guttural death metal growl, and then we hear this.... "screeeeeech!"

[Ninjavenom]

What were you expecting, another Will Rahmer? I think she does a pretty good job, because she fooled me. I had to buy Wages of Sin to realize that the singer was a woman.

[Irwin M. Fletcher]

Johan Liiva SUCKED. He is one of the most boring vocalists ever. Stage presence or not, he sounded weak, especially on the second Arch Enemy record. He did get better on "Burning Bridges", and I don't think Gossow's style particularly complements the Amott's guitar work all that well, but she is definitely a far better vocalist in the studio than Liiva ever was.

[Professor Poddar]

Gotta disagree on the Liiva point. He wasn't great on the 1st 2 albums, but as you say, he did improve on the 3rd. He also laid down some fantastic vocals with pre-"Dark Recollections" Carnage, before being sacked in favor of the mediocre Matti Karki. I see a pattern here, Johan...
Mr. Amott should simply get over his pride and ring Jeff Walker, who would indeed complement A-E's guitarwork quite well. That way they could cover "Necrotocism..."-era Carcass tunes, which at least had some bite-- unlike the tedious wank the boys are currently peddling.

[Helm]

Back when I has handling vocals for my band besides the guitars, I was told I sound exactly like Buning-Bridges era Liiva. Which isn't exactly a great thing to hear. Anyway, I don't like him too much, and as far as AE go, I've heard better power metal.

[Ninjavenom]

I actually liked his voice. I thought his cover of "Starbreaker" was pretty good, but his voice is really not that unique.

[Irwin M. Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Professor Poddar

He also laid down some fantastic vocals with pre-"Dark Recollections" Carnage, before being sacked in favor of the mediocre Matti Karki. I see a pattern here, Johan...

At least you know your shit. Heh...

To whoever said that Arch Enemy was power metal... dear lord, do you know what you're saying!? Sorry, dude... they're NOT "power metal". Do they sing about dragons and wizards and try to sound like a more pompous version of Helloween's "Keeper of the Seven Keys"? Nooo...

[Helm]

The semiotic value of power metal lies beyond the lyrics, dumbass. Sanctuary were power metal, and there was nothing sword and sorcery about them. There's more than Helloween-like power metal, like Tokyo Blade, Crimson Glory, Cloven Hoof which are very down-to-earth and serious, without being any less powerful, or any less metal. AE burning bridges and forward (with minute exceptions like ONE chromatic riff in Immortal) are exactly like a Stratovarious rip-off, minor leads over muted E riffing, double bass and verse, bridge, verse, verse, bridge, chorus, solo tired structure just with the occasional busy drumming bit. For christ's sake, you're supposed to know your stuff, 'Aversiononline' and all.

[Irwin M. Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Helm

The semiotic value of power metal lies beyond the lyrics, dumbass. Sanctuary were power metal, SOUP there was nothing sword SOUP sorcery about them. There's more than Helloween-like power metal, like Tokyo Blade, Crimson Glory, Cloven Hoof which are very down-to-earth SOUP serious, without being any less powerful, or any less metal. AE burning bridges SOUP forward (with minute exceptions like ONE chromatic riff in Immortal) are exactly like a Stratovarious rip-off, minor leads over muted E riffing, double bass SOUP verse, bridge, verse, verse, bridge, chorus, solo tired structure just with the occasional busy drumming bit. For christ's sake, you're supposed to know your stuff, 'Aversiononline' SOUP all.

You're an idiot. So you can throw around a few band names and a few musical terms and that means you're right? Fuck no. Do the Amott brothers toss out some riffs that are total 80's metal with a little bit of a cock rock-ish or power metal vibe at times? Sure. Are all power metal bands the ones that only sing about dragons and fairies and shit? No. Of course not. I was exaggerating, Sherlock. But Arch Enemy is NOT a power metal band, and to even minimally compare them to Stratovarius is quite possibly the most blindly ignorant statement I have ever heard in my life. And to dare call them Stratovarius RIPOFFS? You have shown us all how much you know, shut your yapper and quit before you embarrass yourself any further...

[Helm]

I'm tempted to turn this into a "I ARES KNOW MOER ABOUT METHUL THAN YOU Do!!1!1!!" and break out the discographies, total number of records and years of metal listening and whatnot, but then we'd just as well measure dicks or something. So I'll stick to the case in question, even though this:

You have shown us all how much you know, shut your yapper and quit before you embarrass yourself any further...

is mighty difficult to ignore...

Do they sing about dragons and wizards and try to sound like a more pompous version of Helloween's "Keeper of the Seven Keys"? Nooo...

Excuse me, was that you 'exaggerating' or was it what you think Power Metal is? Is Helloween and Stratovarious the only power metal you've heard, or not? When exactly were you planning to not 'exaggerate' and make a solid point? More importantly, to whom do you think you're talking to? Did I ever give you the impression you need to dumb down so I can follow? Contrary to the US, some countries in Europe - like Greece, where I was born and raised and currently recide - never stopped listening to metal, and their metalheads have a very keen understanding of the various genres so stop 'exaggerating'. It is not needed. I know enough to see a bullshit argument without your blatant patronising anyway.

You're an idiot.

No, really? My god! The ferocity of your mocking has left me utterly devastated! I will now go before you taunt me a second time! :squiggly

So you can throw around a few band names and a few musical terms and that means you're right? Fuck no.

No, I threw around some certain band names that are relevant to my point, which was that power metal might be diverse, but still is understood to be just that, power metal, by anone that isn't a stuck-up purist, without having to resort to sword and sorcery or other cliches. What the matter? Don't want our favourite EXTREME TO THE MAX bands to be associated with faggy power metal? And the technical term I used was indeed very relevant, in that chomatic scales are a trademark of thrash metal, and it's bi-product, death metal (and were introduced into thrash by Slayer - just a free first lesson tip. You can start paying with launch money next time), and thus, this is the only thing whose usage sets AE apart from power metal in one or two songs. Don't tell me you're such a well informed metal-know-it-all and you can't tell what a chromatic riff is! I'd hate to realise that when describing a riff in your web site you have to resort to "uhhh, evil sounding! definately not like those power metal faggy riffs!" or that hilarious cop-out that is "80's metal riff". Do you know how many different styles of riffing where developed and used extensively in the 80's? What's the resemblance between Mekong Delta and Slayer, pray tell? God, even Still of the Night Whitesnake are nothing like Fool for your loving Whitesnake.

Bottom line is, customary animosity and sarcasm aside, if you want to discuss metal, in an informed and conscious fashion, you better know a few things about musical terminology. I'm not saying, go out there and buy a guitar and learn to play just so you can argue with jerks on the net, but shit man, you have a website about the stuff, it's pretty sad to be so ignorant.

Oh, and yeah, the validity of those examples means I'm right.

But Arch Enemy is NOT a power metal band, and to even minimally compare them to Stratovarius is quite possibly the most blindly ignorant statement I have ever heard in my life.

What you fail to do, contrary to me, is provide reason why AE are 'NOT a power metal band' as you so decisively proclaim. You can throw a fit if you want, stomp the floor hard and hold your breath, but if you do not provide a reasonable argument about how AE's usage of double-bass drumming with the predictable 8ths on the snare, mute E pentatonic riffs with flashy leads over it, and customary structures - complete with solo after the second verse (all employed in exactly the same way by Stratovarious, mind you) - is NOT distinctively Power Metal, then you have no case, you're just being a jerk, for god knows what reason. Probably trying to score points on the boards or had a really bad day at the office and venting, or something equally retarded.

Now, I'll just wait until you go search google for 'pentatonic leads' and 'chromatic scales' so you can formulate your SWEEPING COMEBACK and dazzle everyone with your metal mastery.

Or you could just shut up and eat a slice of humble pie, and next time think before you speak.

[Irwin M. Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Helm

Is Helloween and Stratovarious the only power metal you've heard, or not?

Of course I've heard more than that, but any true power metal fan would know as well as I that the generalizations about the genre tend to be true.

Originally Posted by Helm

Contrary to the US, some countries in Europe - like Greece, where I was born and raised and currently recide - never stopped listening to metal, and their metalheads have a very keen understanding of the various genres so stop 'exaggerating'.

Pffft. Come on, so because I'm from the US that makes me "less into metal"? Because unlike Europe the music industry in my country is completely retarded and abandoned metal in the early 90's? Well, I never stopped listening to metal, and I still listen to the same metal that I listened to 16+ years ago today, so...

Originally Posted by Helm

Don't want our favourite EXTREME TO THE MAX bands to be associated with faggy power metal?

Keep in mind that I never said anything about things being "extreme", nor did I say that I don't like any power metal, Sherlock. my whole point was that, plain and simple fact, Arch Enemy is not a power metal band. I listen to tons of shit that is so far from "extreme" it's not even funny. That is the least of my concerns. And hell, I still enjoy early Skid Row and Def Leppard, so I am not at all concerned with what people perceve to be "faggy".

Originally Posted by Helm

What you fail to do, contrary to me, is provide reason why AE are 'NOT a power metal band' as you so decisively proclaim. You can throw a fit if you want, stomp the floor hard and hold your breath, but if you do not provide a reasonable argument about how AE's usage of double-bass drumming with the predictable 8ths on the snare, mute E pentatonic riffs with flashy leads over it, and customary structures - complete with solo after the second verse (all employed in exactly the same way by Stratovarious, mind you) - is NOT distinctively Power Metal, then you have no case...

For one: The vocals. Power metal, in my opinion, is based more around traditional metal, and there is not a bit of actual singing in Arch Enemy's music. Song structure has nothing to do with it. Arch Enemy could very well use the same song structures as Britney Spears. The verse/chorus/bridge type of format is used in every genre, not just power metal. Now, I will grant you the fact that some of the riffing that the Amott brothers drop is absolutely based around traditional 80's metal, and some of the melodic lead playing is just as likely to being to mind Cacophony as it is anything else, but again - that does not make them a power metal band. You mentioned that death metal was born from thrash... does that make Malevolent Creation a thrash band? No? Why not? A lot of their riffs are blatant thrash. A lot of the songs structures are similar to thrash. It's the SOUND. I'm not sure what I would call Arch Enemy. To me the "melodic death metal" tag has become useless, but they are not just a metal band, they are not a thrash band, and they are not a power metal band. They may combine elements of the three, but they are absolutely the least similar to power metal in the final product and how it SOUNDS.

Two other quick points:

1. Your emphasis on music theory is ridiculous. Some of the best musicians and songwriters in history have known absolutely nothing about music theory. Many of them don't even know how to read music.

2. My website is not a metal website. I cover all sorts of music.

Next.

[Helm]

Ah, nice to see we kept the 'YOU ARES AN IDIOT' sillyness to a minimum this time around. As to your points.

I'll wield. AE isn't exactly a power metal band, and yes, it's because of the vocal styling they employ. As you said, they're not death, they're not heavy or power. But they're closer to power than anything else, and that I suppose would by my final point in the subject.

As to your other points:

1. I can't 'read music'. At least not fast, heh. That doesn't stop me from spotting a chromatic riff anyway. And so should you. It's musical vocabulary, and it's important in that, you're not making music, but rather... talking about it. Common sense. And in any case, if you do not care for it, do not bash it like some ignorant asshole with a chip on his shoulder.

2. Fundamental music knowledge applies when discussing all kinds of music. Mussorgsky used chromatic scales too. or dead can dance, or what-have-you.

[Irwin M. Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Helm

I can't 'read music'. At least not fast, heh. That doesn't stop me from spotting a chromatic riff anyway. And so should you. It's musical vocabulary, and it's important in that, you're not making music, but rather... talking about it. Common sense.

I just disagree. I don't care if a band is playing a Phrygian scale, a Locrian Major scale, or a Dorian scale. Nor do I care if they are playing in 4/4, 12/8, etc. I just care what it sounds like. If record reviewers wrote shit like, "The Locrian Major lead shifted from 3/4 into 12/8 at about 3:23 into track #4..." no one would know or care what the fuck they were talking about, unless they were an accomplished musician. If it sounds interesting or sounds like a totally off the wall time signature, I can pick that out. Listen to Confessor and tell me that you can pick out all of the time signatures they're playing in. It can't be done. That shit is just way too fucked up to identify...

[Helm]

Listen to Confessor and tell me that you can pick out all of the time signatures they're playing in. It can't be done. That shit is just way too fucked up to identify...

Actually, Confessor usually play in 16/16. Their (awesome) drummer just divides the sixteenths into a series of parts that added up, make a full four-beat. Like 11/16 and 5/16. He usually does that with the hands, whereas he does multirhythmics with the double bass, like in 6/8. It all adds up and coalesces to a coherent whole after a number of beats, which is the least common denominator of 6/8 (12/16) and 16/16, in this case, 12 beats. A number of other bands, like Dream Theater and Messhugah do the same thing a whole lot. I love Confessor. Now, I agree you don't really need to know all that to have a web zine, but I believe that when you do understand it, you widen the boundries of your musical tastes. Stuff you dismissed as too technical suddenly is quite a bit more interesting. Agreed, if it didn't make you feel anything before, it will not now that you know how it's structured, but the whole process of understanding complex structures has a value all to it's own. And therein lies reason enough to know music theory.