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  #26  
DeadKennedys DeadKennedys is offline
No sir, I don't like it
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Old Jan 3rd, 2009, 09:13 PM       
I didn't say this was a bad thing.

This is what happens when a nation driven by organized religion elects a terrorist regime.
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Tadao Tadao is offline
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Old Jan 3rd, 2009, 09:46 PM       
Also know as : To cut off your nose to spite your face.
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Old Jan 3rd, 2009, 10:11 PM       
I never said I didn't support Isreal, I just think BOTH sides should die. I can't wait until Obama nukes the entire region.
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Old Jan 4th, 2009, 02:27 PM       
Abcd, why do you hate the Palestinians so much?
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Old Jan 4th, 2009, 02:35 PM       
He hates all brown people.
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Old Jan 4th, 2009, 07:18 PM       
What's a Palestinian?

Anyway, oddly enough, I'm the one concerned over Arab life under Hamasistan rule.... and I'm as genetically "brown" or semitic as any Arab is.

Come back when you can make an informed argument.
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Old Jan 4th, 2009, 07:25 PM       
GTFO SANDN*GGER
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Old Jan 4th, 2009, 09:59 PM       
Abcdx, why are you such an internet hate machine?
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Old Jan 4th, 2009, 11:54 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattJack View Post
Abcdx, why are you such an internet hate machine?
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Originally Posted by MattJack View Post
Abcd, why do you hate the Palestinians so much?
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Originally Posted by MattJack View Post
Abcd, why don't I have a good comeback?
Please demonstrate a history (academically referenced) where:

1. There ever was a nation state, kingdom or self governed principality called "Palestine."
2. That Palestine = Arab nation.
3. That the regional renaming of Israel, Judea and Samaria into "Syria-Palistina/Palestine" was not an act of supersessionist anti-Semitism (committed by the Byzantines)
3. That "Palestinians" were not a politically, and anti-Semitically concocketed nation created to delegitimize Jewish claim on present day Israel.
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DeadKennedys DeadKennedys is offline
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 12:38 AM       
THEY'RE ALL DUNE COONS TO ME

KILL EM ALL LET ALLAH SORT EM OUT amirite
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 03:13 AM       
DAJEWZ ARE GETTIN UPPITY. TIME TO THIN THE RANKS AGAIN
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  #37  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 03:39 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx View Post
Please demonstrate a history (academically referenced) where:

1. There ever was a nation state, kingdom or self governed principality called "Palestine."
2. That Palestine = Arab nation.
3. That the regional renaming of Israel, Judea and Samaria into "Syria-Palistina/Palestine" was not an act of supersessionist anti-Semitism (committed by the Byzantines)
3. That "Palestinians" were not a politically, and anti-Semitically concocketed nation created to delegitimize Jewish claim on present day Israel.
It doesn't matter one bit. They're both living there now, and nobody here is really jumping to the defence of Hamas. The general view is that Hamas are awful, but they are going to keep attacking Israel because Israel keeps attacking them. Do you honestly think that a huge campaign into Gaza by Israel, killing civilians and ruining what little infrastructure is left, is going to lead to anything but retaliation? It works vice versa, of course, but Israel is the so called democracy, and people expect them to be civil and just and generally be more ethical than a terrorist group.

So when we see the wildly heavy handed retaliation (and pretty much every attack by either side is always going to be a retaliation to something) we are all going to feel angry that so many civilians have died. I don't jump for joy when an Israeli civilian gets killed, I doubt Matt Jack does either, but being detached from the situation as we are, we look at the one sided statistics rather than anything on a personal level.

You might be more knowledgeable on the history of Israel, and you might know that the Palestinians were created just to piss them off, and I can understand that you feel inclined to defend Israel because of what the state means to you, just as I hope you can understand that a lot of people will have an automatic sense that more civilians killed = wrong, but I do think you have to step back and think of what is going to solve the situation, rather than who is right and who deserves to die more.

There isn't much hope in the region, and nobody seems to have much hope FOR the region either, So instead of this becoming the merry go round that it usually becomes, and ignoring Geggy posts, I'd like to at least know what you think would solve the problem there.
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 10:54 AM       
Solve it with genocide. (anti-Semitically-concocketed-nation-cide) Without further Saudi desalinization projects the few viable aquifiers in Gaza will become increasingly briny from incursions by the Mediterranean. As it stands, in 10 years all irrigated agriculture in Gaza will cease, and the population will collapse due to infant mortality and mass exodus.

To a large degree the conflict is already about water. The settlements in Gaza were easy to clear out mostly because the water situation there is so dire, and with regard to the West Bank it's apparent that Israel's long term strategy is securing the best aquifiers in the region.
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 12:27 PM       
That makes me wonder what the Isrealis plan to do with all the buildings and infrastructure they just destroyed. Somebody will probably say that water infrastructure is the job of the Hamas without talking about the fact that Isreal has been blockading any type of materials that could be used for construction, or the fact that taxes were paid by people in Gaza to Isreal and got nothing in return.
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 12:30 PM       
Also, when Isreal built the wall, they uprooted ALL pipes which were paid for and constructed by people in Gaza only to turn around and say "look, Hamas has not invested in water infrastructure!".
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 01:22 PM       
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It doesn't matter one bit. They're both living there now, and nobody here is really jumping to the defence of Hamas.
You are defending the right of Hamas to lob rockets into a sovereign state without recourse.

The idea that they're both living there now only works for the side willing to coexist. Jews were removed from Gaza so that Palestinian-Egyptian-Arabs could create a state. They chose Hamas, and Hamas chose war over working septic systems.


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The general view is that Hamas are awful, but they are going to keep attacking Israel because Israel keeps attacking them.
Re-read what you wrote. Years later you're still viewing this conflict from the perspective of a child. Hamas will keep attacking Israel because that's their goal, genocide. To remove Jews from what they view as Islamic soil. It does not matter if Israel is passive or not, Hamas will keep attacking. It's in their charter.




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Do you honestly think that a huge campaign into Gaza by Israel, killing civilians and ruining what little infrastructure is left, is going to lead to anything but retaliation?
Yes. If successful it will also stop the rockets and put Gaza back into the hands of the Palestinian Authority, who while no better, are being championed as supposed martyrs. This benefits Israel because they refuse to negotiate with Hamas, and the Obama/Clinton administration is going to force their hand. It also shows that Israel will start using the force available to them, despire world opinion. Are you aware that when polled, Ariel Sharon of all people was the name Arabs came up with for which world leader they'd want as their own. Not because they liked him, but because they thought he was crazy enough to fear....



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Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
So when we see the wildly heavy handed retaliation (and pretty much every attack by either side is always going to be a retaliation to something) we are all going to feel angry that so many civilians have died. I don't jump for joy when an Israeli civilian gets killed, I doubt Matt Jack does either, but being detached from the situation as we are, we look at the one sided statistics rather than anything on a personal level.
You're an enabler.

Why is it you only express remorse when civilians are KILLED?
Why not when they are put in danger of being attacked? Why not when Hamas puts their military centers in schools, and mosques, and why not when an entire community allows this, or worse, supports this?

It's laughable that you're that manipulated by statistics by the way....and what the hell is heavy handed in this case? This is big bad human rights violating Israel.... if they wanted to be heavy handed, they death tolls would reflect, you know, tens of thousands, like the ones Syria and Jordan racked up on Palestinians.

It's not lost on me that you're someone who also claimed the security barrier Israel built was also an atrocity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
I can understand that you feel inclined to defend Israel because of what the state means to you, just as I hope you can understand that a lot of people will have an automatic sense that more civilians killed = wrong, but I do think you have to step back and think of what is going to solve the situation, rather than who is right and who deserves to die more.
Nobody deserves to die.

Israel's approach, and death tolls minimized to 500 prove they are not looking to cause massive death tolls. That's the whole idea of sending in ground troops.

See, I don't think you give a flying shit for Palestinian lives anyway.... and neither does the Arab world. Screwy as it is, Israel is the only state who has really provided them anything constructive, but they also fucked that up by allowing the PLO and Hamas to represent Palestinian Arabs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post
, I'd like to at least know what you think would solve the problem there.
Gaza, and the WB must be returned to their last legal owners under international law, not a 3rd party. Israel has already agreed to give back land, and do it unilaterally, but this must occur between sovereign nations with treaties. Handing over land for further dispute between various feuding Arab factions isn't going to lead to peace.

Palestinians must agree to coexist. The UN must drop their permanent refugee status for Palestinians, which is the only one which includes 3rd and 4th generations, purposely meant to keep this conflict going and going.


Otherwise, it's very simple. The Arab side refuses to coexist, and wants a war... denying this is a war doesn't help either side....denying this war is blossoming into a proxy war with Iran that nobody needs, isn't helping either side....brute force is historically the only thing which has earned respect in the region, and Israel has made the mistake of showing weakness. NO efforts towards peace on Israel's part have ever resulted in peace, or made anyone happy....
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 01:29 PM       
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Also, when Isreal built the wall, they uprooted ALL pipes which were paid for and constructed by people in Gaza only to turn around and say "look, Hamas has not invested in water infrastructure!".
This is false.
Anything which was removed was at the demands of the Palestinian Authority.

Israel left the irrigation systems, and septic tanks. They offered to train someone to work it, and nobody took them up on it. The water systems are still there, and Hamas never requested the butane.

There's no shortage of construction in Palestinian territories.

It's true that water is a huge part of the conflict, and one which is often neglected, but the 9,000 Jews residing in Gaza which some of you call "settlements" were part of communities that had created very successful organic farms. The glass houses were left for Palestinians, and they were set to inherit the industry. Unfortunately, once Israel left, the glass houses were destroyed by Palestinian riots, along with the synagogues, and several Holy Sites.
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  #43  
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 01:48 PM       
it's a shitty piece of desert, i don't see what the big deal is
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 01:58 PM       
It's not about land, or religion. It's about tolerance.
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 03:24 PM       
Abcdx, are you sexually frustrated?

Me too buddy
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 03:25 PM       
Abcd, I don't care about the conflict in the middle east one bit, but it was fun making you get butthurt.
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 03:47 PM       
MattJack is a Scud missile.
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 05:34 PM       
I was butthurt long before you came along dumb ass. Let me know when you're gonna bitch and moan for MY forty acres and a mule.

Ain't gonna happen, just like you're not likely to add anything to this conversation.

At least Ranxer is a mental retard, with a disability. What's your excuse?
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 05:40 PM       
Quote:
NO efforts towards peace on Israel's part have ever resulted in peace, or made anyone happy....
Shouldn't that tell you something about thier "efforts"?
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Old Jan 5th, 2009, 06:11 PM       
Yup, it tells me the world community will not be happy until Israelis lay down on their backs.

Anyway....

Quote:
On Sunday's cabinet meeting, the ministers were informed that 220 of the 300 rockets fired on Israel's south in the last week – 73% - were launched from areas that have been seized by the army in the last 24 hours.

This fact, coupled with the shutting down of a great number of the tunnels used for smuggling weapons and the heavy damages inflicted on Hamas' arms storages, workshops and rocket production facilities, has contributed to the decrease in rocket fire on Israel.
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articl...650517,00.html

I'll add that 400 of the 500 killed were Hamas fighters.
That's about 40% of the reported 1000 Hamas soldiers, and represents a very low tally for civilian casualties.

Gazans should be so happy Israel is the enemy, with Hama, Black September and Anfil in mind. (Google it if you don't know what I'm referencing).
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