Universal Health Care

[TheCoolinator]

I believe the original inquiry was "Does Obamacare have Death Panels?"

Correct?

and we found out it does through my diligent research. Your Welcome.

[mew barios]

most people don't consider an unsourced opinion article to be convincing proof. especially not for something like "death panel" which was originally a criticism of something different and apparently has no real definition. i bet a lot of people make fun of you when you try to communicate your opinion entirely through copypasting alarmist blogs with varying levels of boldness and font size. is that because everyone is stupid but you? or maybe there's a simpler reason.

[The Leader]

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

If you're over it why are you acting like every other person who I proved wrong online?

Who are these people?

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

I believe the original inquiry was "Does Obamacare have Death Panels?"

Correct?

and we found out it does through my diligent research. Your Welcome.

Uh, when I pointed out that I couldn't read a paper that was referenced in an article that you posted without joining some mailing list you directed me back to the article, not the actual paper that it was referencing. If you don't understand why a peer reviewed journal or scholarly article is more credible than a blog then I don't really think that you can prove anything to anyone who is semi intelligent.

I have a serious question, are you for all of these things, the death panels, corporations running the government, etc? I'm wondering because while you post almost nothing but all of these decidedly negative viewpoints, one of your suggestions to me via pm was to get a job. You've also mentioned how you have a corporate job so I am just wondering if you support these corporations and their manipulations? I get a decidedly negative feeling from your posts but the fact that you claim to not follow the masses while suggesting people support the corporations, which I think are ruining the world, causes some confusion.

[Tadao]

OH OH! MEW IS ABOUT TO POUND HIS FIST INTO A WALL.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by mew barios

most people don't consider an unsourced opinion article to be convincing proof. especially not for something like "death panel" which was originally a criticism of something different and apparently has no real definition. i bet a lot of people make fun of you when you try to communicate your opinion entirely through copypasting alarmist blogs with varying levels of boldness and font size. is that because everyone is stupid but you? or maybe there's a simpler reason.

The Washington commission, called the Health Technology Assessment, is manned by 11 bureaucrats

White House budget director Peter Orszag ....... Medicare commission

So far, the commission has banned knee arthroscopy for osteoarthritis, discography for chronic back pain, and implantable infusion pumps for pain not related to cancer. This year, it is targeting such frivolous luxuries as knee replacements, spinal cord stimulation, a specialized autism therapy and MRIs of the abdomen, pelvis or breasts for cancer. It will also rule on routine ultrasounds for pregnancy, which have a "high" efficacy but also a "high" cost.

I can't prove this information wrong, I've tried, if you or any other person has can I would love to hear it. Until then this seems to be the real deal.

Are Obama death panels real? Yes.

[The Leader]

You also can't show us where you got the information from.

[Dimnos]

Dont you know? His ass.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by The Leader

You also can't show us where you got the information from.

Wallstreet Journal. Jump back a few pages.

Research new Health Technology Assessment and Peter Orszag. You will find it there.

[The Leader]

Why? Why can't you just post another link and why can't you answer my last serious question about your support of corporate dominance of society?

[Dimnos]

The Board of Retired Seniors Health Commission is headed by Osama Bin Ladin

Today House Republicans found the new health care reform included measures that gave unparalleled decision making authority to Genghis Khan and his general Sabutai

Man we are fucked.

[The Leader]

SHIT

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by The Leader

Why? Why can't you just post another link and why can't you answer my last serious question about your support of corporate dominance of society?

Was that Wallstreet Journal article true?

I couldn't find anything to the contrary. I'm sorry to say it but bubble head Sarah Palin was actually right. Wow.

[The Leader]

Originally Posted by The Leader

I have a serious question, are you for all of these things, the death panels, corporations running the government, etc? I'm wondering because while you post almost nothing but all of these decidedly negative viewpoints, one of your suggestions to me via pm was to get a job. You've also mentioned how you have a corporate job so I am just wondering if you support these corporations and their manipulations? I get a decidedly negative feeling from your posts but the fact that you claim to not follow the masses while suggesting people support the corporations, which I think are ruining the world, causes some confusion.

Answer the question you stupid fascist.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by The Leader

Answer the question you stupid fascist.

I think you're getting a little bit too personal. Re-Read my posts and good luck.

[The Leader]

When I re-read your posts you come off as a hypocrit. You blame the government for even more horrible things then most people already do and then go along your merry way telling people to "get a job." You're the perfect puppet of the shadow government. You are fully aware of their operations but what do you do to stop them? Nothing. You make a little blog online and post on some forums and that is the extent of your anti-government/corporate activity.

YOU ARE ONE OF THEM.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by The Leader

When I re-read your posts you come off as a hypocrit. You blame the government for even more horrible things then most people already do and then go along your merry way telling people to "get a job." You're the perfect puppet of the shadow government. You are fully aware of their operations but what do you do to stop them? Nothing. You make a little blog online and post on some forums and that is the extent of your anti-government/corporate activity.

YOU ARE ONE OF THEM.

You see to be getting a little bit too emotional about this. You need to do more research into reality.

I would suggest you open your mind to what's really going on under the surface. Good luck.

[The Leader]

He writes using a internet connection and computer purchased with corporate blood money.

[mew barios]

i find this coolinator offensive as his method of argument is one far better suited to a machine, and for a living human to initiate it is incredibly inefficient.

here's just a basic idea of automated processes

look for a forum that a cursory search includes the word 'obama', but doesn't include the word 'obamacare'. this is a fair enough bet that it's both a politically minded forum, and one in need of further education.

look for a post with a title about health care, it doesn't matter how old it is. and open up with a reply about death panels. something generic about the government, hope and change, something about a birth certificate. it's not really important as long as it's nonspecific to whatever the conversation may have originally been.

every 2-5 replies quote the 2-3 most recent and reply with an opinion editorial or conspiracy theorists blog. you can have a large list but really just one per forum is fine. have a few other preset lines like, 'people always insult me instead of addressing my factual facts' and various phrasings of asserted victory. by adjusting the posts based on the volume of replies and certain keywords i believe it could be relatively convincing.

this could free up countless hours to expound your important ideas via other mediums. i don't particularly like the kind of work that increases the level of human suffering, but i'm sure you could find someone willing to develop this system for you.

[kahljorn]

This^ Death panel, which you all denied existed until I showed it to you was not always here. This is a new one. Much different then the insurance companies death panels. why you may ask? because this is now mandated by the government.....with government officials leading it. See the difference?

I see the difference, but its not really relevant.

The Washington commission, called the Health Technology Assessment, is manned by 11 bureaucrats, including a chiropractor and a "naturopath" who focuses on alternative, er, remedies like herbs and massage therapy.

Whenever i rwrite, er, professional articles to convince people of facts i always use terms like ER cause its totally a news story now FACT and probably not just somebodies opinion.

So far, the commission has banned knee arthroscopy for osteoarthritis, discography for chronic back pain, and implantable infusion pumps for pain not related to cancer. This year, it is targeting such frivolous luxuries as knee replacements, spinal cord stimulation, a specialized autism therapy and MRIs of the abdomen, pelvis or breasts for cancer. It will also rule on routine ultrasounds for pregnancy, which have a "high" efficacy but also a "high" cost.

well.. shit guys.. I think I finally see where the coolinator is coming from. I mean its totally worse for these people to have absolutely no coverage then it is for them to have some. It would totally be better and much less death panelish if we just didn't let anybody have health care. Much better than somebody not getting their IMPLANTABLE PAIN PUMPS BECAUSE THEIR LEFT FINGERS HURT SometimeS. How many people really need things like IMPLANTABLE PAIN PUMPS? need them so bad that PILLS, SHOtS, IVS and every other alternative isn't good enough and its deathpanelish to refuse it?
that's like asking HOW COME ONLY CANCER PATIENTS CAN GET CHEMOTHERAPY?

most of the things you listed have alternatives or are things you do as a last resort anyway. Also, pay for your own shit? Jesus, if i go into a hospitol and tey say, "SORRY CANT SAVE YOUR LEg CAUSE YOUR INSURANCE CANT COVER IT" i might just go, "OH HEY PUT IT ON My tAB" since they can't legally refuse treatment.

Again, the COMMITEE doesn't decide whether people live or die it just makes decides if they are going to pay for it or not. Which isn't really so bad because the alternative is that people have to pay for everything.
Furthermore although the state might not cover it, other insurance companies probably will and it should be easier to get coverage from them with this bill.



Oh yea and I recall seeing something about medicaid and social services receiving cuts? Well, now that there will be nationwide medical coverage many programs which were designed to help people with medical costs will no longer be needed.

[Zhukov]

Originally Posted by mew barios

i find this coolinator offensive as his method of argument is one far better suited to a machine, and for a living human to initiate it is incredibly inefficient.

here's just a basic idea of automated processes

look for a forum that a cursory search includes the word 'obama', but doesn't include the word 'obamacare'. this is a fair enough bet that it's both a politically minded forum, and one in need of further education.

look for a post with a title about health care, it doesn't matter how old it is. and open up with a reply about death panels. something generic about the government, hope and change, something about a birth certificate. it's not really important as long as it's nonspecific to whatever the conversation may have originally been.

every 2-5 replies quote the 2-3 most recent and reply with an opinion editorial or conspiracy theorists blog. you can have a large list but really just one per forum is fine. have a few other preset lines like, 'people always insult me instead of addressing my factual facts' and various phrasings of asserted victory. by adjusting the posts based on the volume of replies and certain keywords i believe it could be relatively convincing.

this could free up countless hours to expound your important ideas via other mediums. i don't particularly like the kind of work that increases the level of human suffering, but i'm sure you could find someone willing to develop this system for you.

That's brilliant.


Also, Coolinator, how is a Death Panel committing genocide against the American people?

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

Also, Coolinator, how is a Death Panel committing genocide against the American people?

Will the Death panels be killing US Citizens? And aren't the US population a group of people?

[Zhukov]

Firstly, no, the "Death Panels" will not be killing people. By your own statement, they will be refusing care which may lead to death. Killing by proxy at a MASSIVE stretch.

Secondly, to be genocide it would mean that the "Death Panels" aim is the complete and purposeful elimination of this national group. I hope you aren't mad enough to suggest that Obama's aim in creating "Death Panels" is the elimination of the entirety of the US people.


Thirdly, the "DEATH PANELS" (I will never feel comfortable saying that) will be run by US citizens, so for it to be genocide they would have to be eliminating themselves.

Eliminating themselves as a national group by refusing themselves treatment for life threatening illnesses.


Do you have ANY idea how insane you are?


Stop saying it's genocide. If you read it somewhere then perhaps whomever said it isn't as smart as you once thought, and if you made it up yourself, try to think things through next time before you say them and defend them doggedly.

[Dimnos]

I have to agree with Kahl. The difference between the people who ration out care under Obamacare vs the ones at insurance companies is irrelevant. Hell if anything the fact it will be rationed out by the government means they will be less worried about making the company a profit. Which means your probably more likely to get covered. You see Medicare/Medicaid already exist and already have government employees who determine whether or not you get covered. Guess what. They cover people who are never going to get better. People who will never get well enough to hold down a job. People who will never be "contributing members of society". Are they left to their fate denied medical aid and coverage? No. Simply no. I still say to call it a "death panel" is a grotesque misconception.

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Zhukov

they will be refusing care which may lead to death. Killing by proxy at a MASSIVE stretch.

I think you answered your own question. Even though you tried to hurdle over it with a feet of mental gymnastics.

Secondly, to be genocide it would mean that the "Death Panels" aim is the complete and purposeful elimination of this national group. I hope you aren't mad enough to suggest that Obama's aim in creating "Death Panels" is the elimination of the entirety of the US people.

I'm assuming since its going to ration the care of the US population then the US people will be dying from this.

I doubt they are going to kill everyone with the rationing but we are going to see a lot of deaths nonetheless.

Thirdly, the "DEATH PANELS" (I will never feel comfortable saying that) will be run by US citizens, so for it to be genocide they would have to be eliminating themselves.

These US citizens that are running the Healthcare Commissions (Rationing of care...Death Panels) will already be bought and paid for puppets of corporate interestes.....like every single politician in the world.

Remember,

Oligarchy:

They ration your care

They reduce your standard of living

They pass laws you have to follow

........This is for you....not them or their employees.

[The Leader]

No, it's not. Zhukov isn't American.