Society is really screwed up now.

[Immortal Goat]

I am now afraid to download any music from KaZaA or WinMX because of the government cracking down on these music "pirates". They have arrested over 300 people for downloading music, videos, and pictures from these sites, including a 12 YEAR OLD GIRL!!!! Seriously, what the FUCK is wrong with society today that musicians get so greedy that they cannot let people enjoy their music for free? Music is not about money, it is about losing yourself in another person's words.

[Perndog]

Musicians need to make a living, too. I don't know if you've lived our lifestyle, but there is a lot of work involved, oftentimes more work than fun. Furthermore, while most people have steady employers, enjoy job security, and get regular paychecks, musicians are always looking for gigs with the knowledge that if they hit a dry spell they might have to keep to a pretty strict budget or even pawn stuff off for food money. And recording artists, whose revenues (from shows or album sales) depend on an audience, are on even less steady ground, because even after they sign that wonderful contract there is no guarantee of profit. So it should be no mystery why a lot of musicians are pretty pissed about getting ripped off. Half of them know what it's like to live hand-to-mouth in a van or some shithole that only costs $100 a month to rent.

Not that I think they need to do what they're doing. That's another issue, and one I don't care to debate.

And you can blast pop stars all you want though. Greedy fuckers.

[Ninjavenom]

Anyone cracking down like this should have their musician status stripped, and they should be sent to live inside a haunted tomb in Australia until their dying days. Why? Greed. Greed, greed, greed. This all started in the public eye with Metallica, a band that did exactly what Sabbath did before them: made four quality albums (yeah, i'm one of those whiners) and then decided that from then on, it was going to be about making money, not good music. So the quality declined, and they arrived where they are now: middle-aged rockers trying to regain their status as Thrash Icons through meaningless re-invention and pointless lineup changes. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? (Off the record, i hate Suicidal Tendencies) The only difference here is Metallica forgot that being a musician is about making music, not money, so they tried to pull their jaw out instead of fixing the one cavituous tooth.

Let's be clear here: You're very lucky as a musician to make any particularly large sum of money above what Joe Schmoe worker would make. Being a musician is like being an artist. If you're a street painter, and someone comes by and takes a picture of your latest piece, is it lawsuit time yet? It's the same basic thing, but somehow it isn't theft? What about if i read a book in the library, and photocopy a picture or a paragraph that i may want to keep around for a school report or something? Can you sue me yet? Think of it this way: rather than starve or stay on the current (less)greed(y) train, Metallica has decided that it is best to just eat oneself. If they were on par with The Beatles, maybe i could see them suing fans for theft. Thankfully, they aren't. They have the most BORING DRUMMING EVER, and they weren't the only band doing what they were at the time. They already charge horrible ticket prices, (Eighty dollars to see 40 year old men pretend they're still cool just isn't my bag) and they still get kazillions of fans to attend their shows. If they hadn't spent loads and loads of money on sex, drugs, and booze, i might say they have a right to try to get their money back, but when you owe all your debts to a brazillian cocaine cartel, i won't feel sorry for you. Like all rock stars, greed and extravagance has become their number one fixation to the point where "make good music" just becomes a nattering in one's brain, not a driving force in one's heart.

Rather than continue on a stupid rant about Metallica, i'll just give you ten better thrash bands than Metiallica, so you won't even have to think about them anymore.

1. Slayer (overrated, but at least they have competent drum work)
2. Megadeth
3. Anthrax
4. M.O.D.
5. S.O.D.
6. Satan
7. Destruction
8. Exodus
9. Nuclear Assault
10. Sodom

Pick one, and give it a whirl. None will disappoint. None will sue you for listening to them, either.

edit: Whoops, i meant Destruction. Why the fuck did i say Whiplash?

[Schimid]

I heard that Anthrax had to change their name a while back. :/

Misinformed?

[Ninjavenom]

No, they refused to.

[Schimid]

That's what I thought--but then, I heard they WANTED to change their name to Box Of Puppies.

[El Blanco]

Oh get rid of all this self-righteous "artistic integrity" crap. If a construction worker builds a house, he damn well expects to get paid for it. Who here is going to deny him?

Same deal with musicians. They put the hard work in. where the fuck do you get off with these sanctimonious rants about how bands are all greedy and in it for the money? These bands have families to feed, too.

the vast majority of "file sharers" aren't in this as part of some holy crusade to free art from corporate america's clutches. They are in it for free stuff.

While I certainly don't favor the DoJ going after a 12 year old girl, lets not cannonize her for sainthood just yet.

[Ninjavenom]

Oh, come on. Don't be a fucking blockhead. Metallica and Black Sabbath spent their "hard-earned" money on drugs, and hookers, and other wasteful shit. Know when they got this money? Album five. Ozzy said it himself, "After vol. 4 we just started to make music for the money." Do you seriously expect me to support that? They tell stories on VH1 about speedballs and jaegermeister-soaked holidays, and then you expect me to feel bad for these assholes? Fucking rock stars, they should all have cinder blocks shoved into their cunts.

Also, "artistic integrity crap." What do you think music is? Are you going to buy a cd that's extremely medicore in every way? No, you're not. Are you going to keep supporting a band that makes the same damn record every year for two decades? No. Despite what you may think, playing in a band IS NOT A WISE CAREER CHOICE. These guys know what they're doing and what the dangers are when they get into the music business, and if they also know what's good for them, they're going to GET A FUCKING JOB when times get rough. There's no reason to starve yourself for money, that's absolutely retarded. You wanna know why the guys in Mortician, or Anal Cunt, or Lymphatic Phlegm aren't suing anyone? Because they have jobs. They're not stupid enough to think that they can rely on their music to pay the bills, they know that they have to do something else when in such a genre. That's what makes Metallica greedy, their utter disregard for making anything of mention anymore. Maybe you don't like the word greedy? What about Ignorant? Or Self-Centered? How about Moronic? Or witless? Or just plain old "Sell-outs."

The point is that when you're in a band, the focus is the music, nothing else. Same with art. If you get into art, serious art fans are going to be concerned with the integrity and quality of your art, not how many hookers you can fuck with a fish in a hotel in Norway.

[Immortal Goat]

Another point I would like to make is this. All the bands that have money problems and families to feed that rely on the newest record sale are not usually the bands people download music from. The bands that everyone downloads from are bands with some kind of fame and fortune and could very well live without their newest CD selling so well. Take Metallica for example. I see people downloading a ton of that shit every day, and they are rich bastards. Some little garage band that is travelling from town to town hoping to find a gig in a dingy bar is not going to have much music to download, and therefore it is not a problem for them.

[Perndog]

Send me a copy of your record, Ninjavenom, then I'll listen to you bitch until the sun comes up. Listeners' opinions aside, Metallica and the like aren't just making music because they're greedy bastards who know they can sell millions of albums. If that were the goal, they wouldn't have gone this long without releasing a record. Whatever anyone else thinks, the band is convinced that they wrote and recorded good music, and they did it because they wanted to make music. If money was the only concern, they wouldn't stop touring for so long to go sit in a studio, since they're big enough to sell out stadiums at $80 a seat. (THAT's the part that pisses me off) You're free to think their music sucks, but they're writing what they want to write from an artistic standpoint - if they were that greedy, they would go back to writing more songs just like the black album, but as they've said in countless interviews, they got tired of the same old formula and wanted to try something new. And they earned the ability to do that by making enough money to support them through albums that fewer people liked but were more fulfilling for them. Fuck your high-minded "sell-out" shit. Selling out is changing to suit your audience. When you change and it pisses your audience off, you're losing potential profits in favor of expression, which is what Metallica is doing.

I don't like St. Anger either, but at least I'm not so hung up on bitching about what successful people should do (I'm busy trying to be successful myself) that I can't tell the difference between manufactured tripe and experimentation.

[Anonymous]

Just in case someone is wonder about this, the latest round of RIAA lawsuits were filed against people with tremendous amounts of music on their computers, as in close to 1000 MP3s in some cases.

[Perndog]

Yeah, let's get back on topic...

I have 3500 mp3s, available through AIM or Kazaa. If I go down, I'm going down hard.

[Big McLargehuge]

Weren't you just bitching about ripping of the musicians?

[Perndog]

Originally Posted by I

Not that I think they need to do what they're doing.

No, I wasn't. I was explaining that I understand their perspective. But I still think they're wrong.

[imported_Hollycaust]

Hi, file sharing is gay.
I'm selfish.

[The_Rorschach]

"Same deal with musicians. They put the hard work in. where the fuck do you get off with these sanctimonious rants about how bands are all greedy and in it for the money? These bands have families to feed, too."

The way I see it, and I admit I might very well be wrong, sharing a song with someone across Kazaa is no worse than loaning a Cee Dee to a friend. When I was in High School we used to make tape, actual tape, compilations of bands like Honey Bear and Discount and Cheater and other bands that we could not purchase anywhere else. We'd trade and pass them around, and use them to make second gen compilations that really sucked to listen to.

Most of the songs I've downloaded on Kazaa I found with random searches trying to find something new and interesting. It's how I found Dark Tranquility and Meredith Sex Garden. Its an excellent way for bands not of the traditional circuit to gain followers, even if it does drain slightly on the bands that do make it. Pardon me if I don't cry for Celion Dion and Britney Spears. What we're seeing is the Digital Prohibition, and I'm afraid I'm standing beside Capone on this one.

[punkgrrrlie10]

It's a business. People are trying to make a living doing what they love. If it was only about making music, why would they put out a CD to sell or work at practicing to play a venue? Why wouldn't they just hang out in the garage for the rest of their life w/their band and just play? They want to make music but they gotta eat too and usually people live on shit jobs for a long time to make it in the business. This is their idea sprung from their brains and genius that many people happen to like and want. It works the same for anything. People make cars, gotta pay for one. People grow food, an absolute necessity for society, but if they weren't paid to do so, why would they mass produce for everyone. They do it to make a living. Just b/c you don't want to pay for it, doesn't mean you shouldn't. Why am I paying for law school, to be a lawyer-why? b/c I love law, but would I do all this mother F'ing work for free and starve to death? Absolutely not.

[Zhukov]

This is a problem with society. Like punkgrrrlie said, its not just musicians who need to 'make a living', however, people seem to think that because they are 'artists' that they have to rise above making money to live off. They may just have families too.

When somebody does something, anything, not just becasue they love to do it, but becasue they don't wasnt to starve; well I think that lessens the joy of doing what you do.

Not just the musician should be above 'selling-out' their talents to make a buck, but the house builder too, and the factory worker and any other worker. Like the emancipated musician, I should be able too wake up in the morning and want to go to work for the sheer joy of doing it.

How can we expect the musician to give up music to get a 'real job', when the guy that loves to work at disney land can work there and also 'make a living'? This may sound far fetched, but I think people should be able to do what they want, and not have to look elsewhere just to survive.


It is not a problem in society, it is a product of society.

[Sethomas]

I used to hang out a lot at a sleazy punk venue, and I found that the musicians who are the most hard-pressed for money also tend to be those who look well upon downloading. They're glad for kids to be swapping their songs because at least that means people are listening to them. If they are foolhardy enough to rely on music to pay the bills, they get their money from playing gigs. Comparing musicians to house builders and factory workers is asinine. When the fell swoop of capitalism strikes down a musician's dream, it's not like there's a void left in the economy as would happen when houses need built or buttons need pushed.

Another complication I see is that most kids don't have the attention span to listen to entire albums, and now they don't have to. It's the pop way of life to engineer three or so songs for radio playability then fill the cd with 9 tracks of spacer shite. Such groups are the ones getting hit the hardest by music piracy, and I have no sympathy for them.
The respectable thing to do is download a song that gets stuck in your head, and figure out that of which you'd like to hear more. (God, I hate akward constructions to avoid ending sentences in prepositions.) Then go out and buy the album. Good bands make albums to which you can listen for an hour or so and be thoroughly pleased. Anyone who downloads every song of such an album is just an asshole, though.

[Zhukov]

Comparing musicians to house builders and factory workers is asinine. When the fell swoop of capitalism strikes down a musician's dream, it's not like there's a void left in the economy as would happen when houses need built or buttons need pushed.

I wasnt comparing them in relation to the economy, I was comparing them in relation to the power of their dreams. I was thinking of the future. People still need to 'survive' at the moment; so all you musicians: get a job!

And you would be silly to think that the 'music industry' has nothing to do with 'economy', but yeah yeah, I know what you mean.

[Skulhedface]

As far as I'm concerned...

Yes, indeed, you are an asshole if you enjoy a whole album but download the whole thing instead of just buying the thing. If you like the band so much that you listen to the whole CD, why not show your support and buy it?

On the other hand, I'm all for downloading singles. Why? Because most record companies feel justified charging $7 or more for ONE song, or probably three tracks on one $7 CD, two of which are shitty remixes of the single in the first place. When bands are just making singles around an entire album rather than making a whole album worth of good music, then I'm not so hasty to pass downloading judgement.

Rest assured, unless it's off different albums, I have no more than three songs by one band off the same album. If I like more than three songs on one album, I'll buy it. But I don't feel like I got my money's worth if I pay almost $20 for THREE SONGS.

[sspadowsky]

A fact:
Bands don't make money off album sales. Record companies do. Obviously, the megastars are the exception to this, but a band like Clutch or In Flames (or 98% of other non-multiplatinum bands)makes their money from touring.

Some folks have finally caught on. iTunes has been a very successful site where people can download individual songs for $1 apiece. Universal Music Group has finally come to the understanding that paying $19 for a CD is what is known as "ass-rape," and they have lowered their prices an average of $6 per CD. Other record companies will likely follow suit. I'll go back to buying CDs. Maybe the reduction in record company profits will make them more selective, resulting in fewer shit bands like the Backstreet Boys and such.

[El Blanco]

Oh, come on. Don't be a fucking blockhead. Metallica and Black Sabbath spent their "hard-earned" money on drugs, and hookers, and other wasteful shit. Know when they got this money? Album five. Ozzy said it himself, "After vol. 4 we just started to make music for the money." Do you seriously expect me to support that? They tell stories on VH1 about speedballs and jaegermeister-soaked holidays, and then you expect me to feel bad for these assholes? Fucking rock stars, they should all have cinder blocks shoved into their cunts.

So, if it sucks, why bother downloading it? Time is more porecious than money. I may be wierd like this, but I usually only listen to music I like. Maybe I'm just crazy.

And by the way, its their money, they earned it. Who the fuck do you think you are to tell them how to spend it?

Also, "artistic integrity crap." What do you think music is? Are you going to buy a cd that's extremely medicore in every way? No, you're not. Are you going to keep supporting a band that makes the same damn record every year for two decades?

I'm not going to listen to it at all. Time > money.

Why bother stealing it?

Despite what you may think, playing in a band IS NOT A WISE CAREER CHOICE.

No shit.

These guys know what they're doing and what the dangers are when they get into the music business, and if they also know what's good for them, they're going to GET A FUCKING JOB when times get rough. There's no reason to starve yourself for money, that's absolutely retarded. You wanna know why the guys in Mortician, or Anal Cunt, or Lymphatic Phlegm aren't suing anyone? Because they have jobs.

And Metallica, Dr Dre, Geffen, Sony and all those others have a job. Music. Oh, you forgot that there is more involved in the music industry than some mook playing a guitar, didn't you?

That's what makes Metallica greedy, their utter disregard for making anything of mention anymore.

Because they want to be paid for their hard work? Because they don't want to go back a 9 to 5 lifestyle? I think by that standard 9 out of 10 people on earth would end up greedy in their spot.

What about Ignorant? Or Self-Centered? How about Moronic? Or witless?

Ya, that does pretty much sum up your rant. I can add "pretnetious" if you like.

The point is that when you're in a band, the focus is the music, nothing else.

That is great when you play out of mom and dad's garage. But, when you grow up and realize you have to do this for a living, it gets more complicated. In case you haven't noticed, Metallica et al are protecting their music.

And how are all your favorite bands supposed to focus on music when they are working other jobs?

If you get into art, serious art fans are going to be concerned with the integrity and quality of your art, not how many hookers you can fuck with a fish in a hotel in Norway.

Fuck "serious art fans". Seriously, fuck them all. Its one thing to not like your band's latest work. It is something else to steal it and then make like they are comitting another Holocaust.

You self proclaimed music experts are so pretentious it is laughable. What happened to just sitting back and enjoying some music? Metallica making shitty music( I agree St Anger is blowing monkey ass)? Find another band.

If some dummy wants to pay them for what they are doing, more power to 'em.

[soundtest]

Originally Posted by punkgrrrlie10

why would they mass produce for everyone

They don't have to. Copying is not stealing.

[Cosmo Electrolux]

It's my understanding that that the record companies make most of the money form record sales. The artist make their money from merchandising and concerts....