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  #126  
snake snake is offline
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Old May 25th, 2003, 05:19 PM       
I hope they get a sex scene with Persephone in the next movie. She was incredibly hot.

I also think that the final movie will tell us that he had a hard-on while he kissed her. This is symbolic and means that the grass is always greener on the other side. I think hes going to leave Trinity and then shes going to betray Zion and humankind to those machines and have sex with them instead of Neo.
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  #127  
Captain Robo Captain Robo is offline
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Old May 25th, 2003, 05:21 PM       
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Originally Posted by soundtest
I'm not gonna pretend I paid anywhere near the attention some of you guys did to this movie, but I read all of this and found it very interesting. But I have a question that has been bugging me for awhile and maybe one of you guys could answer it:

If the whole purpose of the machines is to use humans for energy, then why exactly is the 'matrix' necessary? Could they not simply extract the same energy from comatose humans?
Soundtest, the only electrical system in the body is the nervous system. Your senses are all the result of electrical firings and synapses of your nerves. Wouldn't it make sense to keep the nervous system as active as possible to extract the peak amount of energy?
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  #128  
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Old May 25th, 2003, 05:37 PM       
Actually as much pain as possible would create lesser intervalls between the synapses. They should have created a hell based on Dante instead. Hows that for efficient energy
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  #129  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
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Old May 25th, 2003, 07:30 PM       
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Originally Posted by Ninjavenom
Now, for my interpretation of the end. What if the Architect was also a program?
I thought it was pretty much a given that the Architect was a program. It's not as if the real guy could still be alive after hundreds of years. And it's not as if a human would have designed the Matrix anyway. I think the Architect is supposed to be the main program behind the Matrix.
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  #130  
liquidstatik liquidstatik is offline
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Old May 25th, 2003, 08:18 PM       
So, I wander who actually did created the matrix :/
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  #131  
Ninjavenom Ninjavenom is offline
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Old May 25th, 2003, 09:38 PM       
Yeah, i guess that was a pretty obvious thing to point out, now that i think about it, Proto.
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  #132  
CaptainBubba CaptainBubba is offline
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Old May 25th, 2003, 09:44 PM       
Spectre, his mind couldn't "make it real" in the true physical world. That makes no sense. The only way that part of the movie could possibly make sense is if Zion is a second matrix. If its not and they come up with some half assed religious or metaphysical excuse I'm going to fucking murder the Wachowski bros.

Other than that it was a damn good movie. I have to see the third before I make my final conclusion on it though, because this is really only half a movie.
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  #133  
WorthlessLiar WorthlessLiar is offline
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Old May 25th, 2003, 11:25 PM        who controls the real, real world
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Originally Posted by liquidstatik
So, I wander who actually did created the matrix :/
Indeed, it is interesting to think that if there is a matrix within a matrix (and maybe a matrix within that) it may not be the machines in charge in the real world. Maybe its humans controlling other humans. On the other hand this would render all the nice mythology they've built around the matrix and expanded through the animatrix and the videogame rather pointless. Then again, maybe that's the point.
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  #134  
Ninjavenom Ninjavenom is offline
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Old May 25th, 2003, 11:45 PM       
Spectre, his mind couldn't "make it real" in the true physical world. That makes no sense.

It's a movie. And with the Wachowski Brothers, i wouldn't put it past them to put some crazy twist in there somehow.
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  #135  
The_voice_of_reason The_voice_of_reason is offline
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Old May 26th, 2003, 01:24 AM       
you know what that movie needed? MORE FIGHT SCENES i only counted 798079697 of them. Their was also almost 9 minutes of dialog!!! Do you know how much asskicking could have been done in that time!!!
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  #136  
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Old May 26th, 2003, 03:05 AM       
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Originally Posted by liquidstatik
So, I wander who actually did created the matrix :/
If I gather correctly, the machines did. Remember in the first movie Morpheus was talking about how humans had given birth to AI. From there the machines fought man, and apparently started winning, forcing the remaining humans to block out the sky and flee to Zion. Well, the machines had figured out that they could use humans as an energy source, and figured out how to pacify them to harness their energy:

*drum roll*

THE MATRIX!

Doesn't that just bake your noodle? And would you have indeed baked that noodle if I hadn't said it?
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  #137  
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Old May 26th, 2003, 01:07 PM       
Yes, the Machines built the Matrix. If the first movie wasn't enough to tell you that, watch the fourth Animatrix segment that's available on the website. It's part 2 of that 2-parter that I can't remember the name of.
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  #138  
WorthlessLiar WorthlessLiar is offline
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Old May 26th, 2003, 01:27 PM        re
Yes, it was the machines that built the matrix that Neo broke free of but if Zion is another system of control and part of yet another Matrix, isn't it possible that someone else is in charge after all? The rule of the machines could be another lie. I don't think they'd take the movie this direction but it is possible.
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  #139  
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Old May 26th, 2003, 05:22 PM       
I think it's more likely that the Machines built the Matrix first, then found that people were trying to escape it, and built the world of Zion around it to capture them.

If the war against the Machines was already an event inside of the Matrix, the story of the third movie would probably suck. That'd dismiss all of mankind's efforts to be free. So, I really doubt they'll do that.
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  #140  
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Old May 26th, 2003, 11:36 PM       
I would like to talk about the movie philosophically, but my time is cut short. So I'll try to get real simple about it.

The movie was fucking brilliant. I really thought Reloaded was going to be an all out action flick, but I was wrong. I enjoyed the movie from beginning to the last 10 seconds of it (excluding credits and trailer). The 10 seconds I didn't enjoy with the movie was when the 'To be Concluded' (yes, I know it's a trilogy) text to be scored with a horrendous DumDumDUMMMM-esque manner.
Spoilers (Including Animatrix and Enter the Matrix)
One other problem I had with the movie was the 'Agent Zion Smith', it didn't show a lot of development of him (There was, however, a scene in Enter the Matrix that shown his crewmates dead inside his ship while he was leaving it with the knife in his hand.) So when the movie progressed through you would practically forget about him, even twice with the council meeteing, until the end.

For those that had the chance see the unreleased Animatrix episodes. The 'mouse-boy' (as someone who recently referred him as) character was actually the main character in 'A Boy's Story' of the Animatrix. That was why the whole "You saved me." 'No you saved yourself.'" scene was trying to stand out at the time of their conversation (Just for those who care about it).


Ok Im too lazy for proofreading and adding more crap. See you.




ps. Oh, and one more thing (Not to be off-topic or anything :P) but how did Dozer die? The only clue was when his sister said she lost two of her brothers on the Neb, and I'm sure Dozer did live after the Cypher incident up unto the end of the first movie.
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  #141  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
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Old May 27th, 2003, 01:51 AM       
You're thinking of Tank. We saw Dozer die on screen in the first movie.
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  #142  
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Old May 27th, 2003, 02:54 AM       
I should've trusted my doubt at that time.
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  #143  
punkgrrrlie10 punkgrrrlie10 is offline
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Old May 27th, 2003, 03:22 AM       
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I would like to talk about the movie philosophically, but my time is cut short. So I'll try to get real simple about it.
you did not make one philosophical observation in your entire post, unless it was merely that sentence in which, we are to delve into the true meaning of "simple about it" as not speaking about it at all.

As far as philos is concerned, if they stay on the path they are on, possible to have matrix w/in a matrix and the whole predestination stuff the source talks about and yet the source is not really the source but you think it is...oh the possibilities are endless. The movie is ripe with medieval philosophy and platonic thought it makes me tingly. [/i]
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  #144  
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Old May 27th, 2003, 06:44 AM       
Neo's only 'power' in the matrix is the ability to severly bend or break the rules of the system. He doesn't have the specific ability to fly per se, simply the ability to act with minor inhibitions.

That said, his 'powers' can't carry into the Zion world because his only 'power' is broadened choice.

*And I realize that the many Neos on the screens were available choices. I was debunking two theories on The Ones, not supporting either.
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  #145  
soundtest soundtest is offline
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Old May 27th, 2003, 02:16 PM       
Tank died because he wanted too much money to reprise the role.

http://www.boycottthematrix.com/
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  #146  
CaptainBubba CaptainBubba is offline
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Old May 27th, 2003, 04:35 PM       
When the architect is displaying moments from Neo's life on the sceens, Zion is shown. This leaves 3 possibilites:

1. The architect can read minds
2. Zion is bugged with cameras
3. Zion is a second matrix.
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  #147  
Protoclown Protoclown is offline
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Old May 27th, 2003, 06:21 PM       
4. The writers didn't realize what they were doing

Which I doubt is the case. Bubba, you raise a DAMNED interesting point.
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  #148  
punkgrrrlie10 punkgrrrlie10 is offline
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Old May 27th, 2003, 06:57 PM       
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Originally Posted by CaptainBubba
When the architect is displaying moments from Neo's life on the sceens, Zion is shown. This leaves 3 possibilites:

1. The architect can read minds
2. Zion is bugged with cameras
3. Zion is a second matrix.
The architect said that there were other "ones" before him which means that the others on the screen were the "ones" who reacted to the architect before, not necessarily the "one" that is before him.
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  #149  
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Old May 27th, 2003, 07:09 PM       
As someone on this thread pointed out earlier we saw that Bane (or rather another copy of Smith) cut his hand and shaked Neos. The same person suggested that it could have been made Neo able to sense the sentinels.

- Another idea then came to my mind. What if Neo didnt stop the Sentinels. What if they were sensing some of Smiths programming within him, stopped and then self destructed or something becouse they arent supposed to attack other machines. Its probably a far shot but its something to take note of.

- Also. In the first movie, Agent Smith talks of other Matrixes to Morpheus when he is being held captive. Smith is spesifically refering to the "first Matrix". Why doesent Morpheus mention this to Neo? During Neos conversation with the Architect his respond to the fact that there are other matrixes are "either anyone has not told me or anyone.........doesent know."

My point is, that there have been other Matrixes are very important so why has not Morpheus mentioned it to Neo?

- The divinely powerfull rogue program that was supposed to protect the keymaker. Was all his power just having a bunch of helpers? becouse he ran when confronted with Neo.

- In the first movie, The One is supposed to do whatever the fuck he wants with the code that is "the matrix" I expected him to not even fight in the last movie, why couldnt he just erase the agents from the code, raze buildings to the ground, stop time, or whatever he wants? Actually I had expected him to completely abandon his human form when in the Matrix. Maybe this is what will happen in the third movie, Neo may still free his mind completely and metamorphose into some purely digital thing
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  #150  
CaptainBubba CaptainBubba is offline
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Old May 27th, 2003, 07:13 PM       
Punkgirl: How is that relevant to my point? And I also disagree with you., but assuming you're correct that it may be the previous ones on the screen, that would just mean that the previous zions were being shown when the previous "ones" were in them. It doesn't change anything regarding what I was saying.

Honestly I don't believe those were other "the ones" though.
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