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Ronnie Raygun · #1

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecov...03/4/18/162336

Friday, April 18, 2003
It's True: 'Liberals' Wanted Saddam to Beat U.S.

Gary Kamiya, executive editor of the left-leaning Internet journal Salon, confirms what some Americans have suspected: Liberals were cheering for the enemy in Iraq, the Washington Times pointed out today in an item headlined "Cheering the enemy."

"I have a confession: I have at times, as the war has unfolded, secretly wished for things to go wrong," Kamiya wrote. "Wished for the Iraqis to be more nationalistic, to resist longer. Wished for the Arab world to rise up in rage. Wished for all the things we feared would happen. I'm not alone: A number of serious, intelligent, morally sensitive people who oppose the war have told me they have had identical feelings."

But surely, you object, these "serious, intelligent, morally sensitive" liberals couldn't possibly favor a mass-murdering, torture-loving dictator? Surely they couldn't agree with "Latino studies" assistant professor Nicholas De Genova, who told a cheering crowd of appeasement activists at Columbia University that he "would like to see a million Mogadishus." Think again.

More dead American troops would have been preferred to the "larger moral negative" of a victory that boosted President Bush's chances for re-election, according to the Salon big.

"Many antiwar commentators have argued that once the war started, even those who oppose it must now wish for the quickest, least-bloody victory followed by the maximum possible liberation of the Iraqi people," Kamiya wrote. "But there is one argument against this: What if you are convinced that an easy victory will ultimately result in a larger moral negative — four more years of Bush, for example, with attendant disastrous policies, or the betrayal of the Palestinians to eternal occupation, or more imperialist meddling in the Middle East or elsewhere?

"Wishing for things to go wrong is the logical corollary of the postulate that the better things go for Bush, the worse they will go for America and the rest of the world."

Thus goes the reasoning at Salon, which is moderate compared to the hateful rantings of some U.S. leftists.

How ironic that the more these "liberals" reveal themselves to America, the more they boost a president they so despise.

mburbank · #2

You are dumber than a sea monkey.

Protoclown · #3

Hi, Ronnie. I am a "liberal" and I didn't want Saddam to win.

Unless you're going to tell me that secretly, deep down in my subconscious mind I was rooting for him.

But if that's true, I think deep down in your subconscious mind you're rooting for the Antichrist.

Ronnie Raygun · #4

Face it. What's bad for the country is good for you and your political agenda.

If you can't admit that you are not being honest.

kellychaos · #5

Ronnie ... please PM me your drug source ... dat's some good sheeyat bro.

Ronnie Raygun · #6

I don't do PM.

But I can still hook you up with my secret.

Life, Truth, Dignity, Self Respect.

Some things most libs know little or nothing about.

Protoclown · #7

That's great, Ronnie. But I don't have a political agenda. What's good for the country is good for me.

kellychaos · #8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

I don't do PM.

Hmmm ... that's too bad. I just kind of thought that since ignorance is bliss, you must be hooked up to some really good stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

Life, Truth, Dignity, Self Respect.

Some things most libs no little or nothing about.

I served my time and get all the above from that experience. Have you? I'm not particularly liberal in all my views but I damn sure don't need your approval when I am about specific issues. I'm well educated and my views come from real life experiences abroad in the armed forces and elsewhere ... NOT scholarly (pfft ...

)conjecture.

Krythor · #9

Well, if they "no" nothing about life, dignity, truth, respect, victory, jizzum etc etc. at least they know how to spell

kellychaos · #10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krythor

Well, if they "no" nothing about life, dignity, truth, respect, victory, jizzum etc etc. at least they know how to spell

We leave the little stuff alone 'round here, Krythor. There's so much else to attack in his arguments, those things merely act as speed bumps.

ranxer · #11

it really sucks that gwb is a fundamentalist simpleton enabler,
i keep trying to explain to the pro-war folks that are hiding behind their troop banners that i am not anti-american i am anti-corporate america.. still, they just don't get it.

i won't give up though because we will be shown correct when america is brought to the level of a third world country with only walmart, weapons companies and prisons making money(or something close)

we are spending 12k a second on this 'war on terror' while every state in the union is cutting social services.. YAY FOR THE IRAQI's! i hope they have a health care system and education system that is as good as it was before we liberated them! i bet we will push for privatization, its the only thing the imperialists believe in

KevinTheOmnivore · #12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

Face it. What's bad for the country is good for you and your political agenda.

If you can't admit that you are not being honest.

Idiots like you were saying the same thing to critics of Cold War tactics, such as the supporting of "client" states to fight against other client states. Some said, supporting these dubious Latin dictators, or these questionable Arab extremists is a bad idea. "But it was all to fight Communism," says jackass (er, Ronnie).

Fast forward to 9/11/01: Who orchestrated those attacks? What network? Who was their chief financer? How did he make all of his connections that he would later use in Gulf War I?

People like you lack complete vision, Ronnie. You don't possess the mental capability to see beyond these borders. Hell, you can't even see beyond the next Presidential election. The world is 20 second images and good polling data to you.

Since your buddy Jerry Falwell can point fingers at the WRONG people to blame, maybe it's time to start pointing fingers at the RIGHT people to blame.

You think you have America's best interests at heart, Ronnie. If 9/11 strikes you as good for America, than please, elaborate on what's bad.

People like you don't care about the people of America, you only care about the perceived image of America in your own widdle brain. If Fox News, Newsmax, and Sean Hannity say we're ok, well then we must be, right? You'd do fine in a totalitarian state, Ronnie. You'd move right up the ranks.

If you can't admit that, then you are not being honest.

Ronnie Raygun · #13

Yeah! Kevin, America is just full of million upon millions of morons that aren't so smart as to understand your way of thinking.

Ha!

You and your hippie activist professors are a dieing breed. YOU PEOPLE used to rely on polls and now you hate them. You think this world is on big consiracy against you because you are too much of a coward to face the truth.

I don't care what you say about me Kevin. Pretty much everything I type on this board I type in about 1 min. or less because I'm at work. I am far from short sighted. I can't think of a time where I've been proven wrong on a major issue.

THIS WAR IS A PRIME EXAMPLE!

I'm sorry YOU are so bitter about.

Can we still be best friends?

mburbank · #14

Ronnie, seriously, you're kind of like a sea monkey. I don't mean like a brine shrimp, I mean like the 'fanciful depiction' on sea monkey packaging.

You're trying so hard to be provocative so you can reclaim the crown of I-mockery's most disliked person from Vince, it's just sad. Oh, OH, what's bad for the country is good for libs. That's SO yesterday. Vince brings all that to the table, plus pitying your offspring and questioning your sexuality, calling you a pussy and actually lusting for blood. You just don't ahve it compared to that.

Face that.

KevinTheOmnivore · #15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

Yeah! Kevin, America is just full of million upon millions of morons that aren't so smart as to understand your way of thinking.

This isn't what I said. I said "many" people, with more emphasis on the "people like you." Millions of Americans think millions of different things, and have varying opinions on all sorts of issues. Unlike yourself, who if he was told that toppling every government in the Middle East would prevent terrorism, you would step right in line with the President. You don't question. You don't think. You absorb what is dictated.

Quote:

You and your hippie activist professors are a dieing breed.

Yet if just ONE supported your argument, you would tout him like the golden goose. You're a vile hypocrite.

Quote:

YOU PEOPLE used to rely on polls and now you hate them.

"YOU PEOPLE DID THIS, YOU PEOPLE DID THAT"

Who the hell are you talking about? Me? A college professor in Stanford? A Zapatista guerilla in Mexico? A French guy you hate? Do we all hang out at the bar in the Marriot in downtown Atlanta?

Who are these Americans that you so easily cast into one giant lot in order to simplify and ostracize? Aren't you against divisive politics? Aren't we "all" Americans, Ronnie....?

Your lense of Americans, just like your perspective of those you disagree with, comes from the Gods you worship, Ronnie. The talk radio mouth pieces, the slanted yellow journalism of Newsmax and Fox News, and anybody else who reinforces your naive little understandings.

How many opposing magazines do you read, Ronnie? How many "Liberal" or "Leftist" authors do you read? How much Engels have you read? Can your little skull even come close to challenging itself?

I am only 23 years old. I have listened to conservative talk radio for over 10 years, long before I even fully understood what they were talking about. I enjoy confronting myself with opposition. I enjoy reading the columns of Cal Thomas, but especially George F. Will. I've read conservative economic books by guys such as Hernando DeSoto. My beliefs, my values, my politics, have ALL been shaped by the different knowledge I have absorbed. So before you ever DARE to call someone a coward for being unwilling to face up to their beliefs, you better start with your own insulated self.

And on that note.....

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nk this world is on big consiracy against you because you are too much of a coward to face the truth.

How so? Can you back this up? What view point have I expressed to support this? Can you back this up? I doubt it.

Hey Ronnie, you think the IR.S., the Federal Government, and anybody who isn't a Republican in Washington is out to get you and take your money, right? Why do you support gun rights? You're in a militia and may blow up an abortion clinic one day, right Ronnie?

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I don't care what you say about me Kevin.

Now who's the liar? If you didn't care you wouldn't take the time from your precious break to respond.

Quote:

pretty much everything I type on this board I type in about 1 min. or less because I'm at work.

Right, right, the "I'm too busy to care" line. I'll bet you've said this before to others on the 15 other political message boards I'm sure you post on.....

Quote:

I am far from short sighted. I can't think of a time where I've been proven wrong on a major issue.

Quote:

THIS WAR IS A PRIME EXAMPLE!

Like the pesticides we found? Like the uranium Iraq wasn't buying from Nigeria? Like the "BIG PROOF THEY HAVE WMD" that you got off of Rush Limbaugh's website, you know, the proof that (for some crazy reason) never seemed to catch on?

What about the link between Saddam and Al Quada that never happened? How about the meting between a "top Al Quada" operative with an Iraqi commander in Turkey, ya know, the meeting that never really happened?

This war alone has proved WITHOUT A DOUBT how much of a liar and a fool you are. If I'm bettin' on the ponies, I want to see who YOU pick first.

Quote:

I'm sorry YOU are so bitter about.

I'm not bitter about anything. Post-war Iraq has proven the peace movement right over the pro-war/pro-death movement that you support.

This war was wrong. It will remain wrong. We will see what happens in Iraq, not tomorrow, not from what some disc jockey says about it in a week, but YEARS from now. Can you think that far in advance without getting a cue from Drudge, Ronnie?

Vibecrewangel · #16

What about people like me Ronnie? THe ones who support the war but think that Bush is a dangerous, lying moron? Which by the way, frightens me more than Saddam who is a dangerous, lying, sneaky bastard. At least with the sneaky bastard you know where you stand. With a moron you never know what is gonna come next.

You know, if Bush had moved into this war saying
"We have no proof that Saddam has anything, but we susspect it and the odds are good that he does." Instead of stomping his foot and saying "But it's there gosh dang it."

Or

"The man is a lunatic who is either hiding something already or simply toying with the world while he is working on something." Instead of "It's there, we just can't find it."

Or

"Having a man like that control a resources as important to the world as oil could become a problem in the future." Instead of "This isn't about oil."

Or

"This man needs to be taken out of power. He is a danger to his own people and the rest of the world." As opposed to "Operation Iraqi Freedom!"

See the problem is, insead of just being honest and saying things plainly he tried to make this so much prettier for the US. If he hadn't been so busy trying to lie to us and simply said "Right now this is a better alternative than continued waiting." I think that more people would have supported not only the war but the president himself.

Then again, maybe I am a freak. I would much rather hear the unglossed truth than have someone try to cram rose colored glasses over my eyes.

Honestly, must of us knew the war was inevitable. Now or in the near future it was going to happen. The problem lies in Bush and the way he presented it to the American public.
Most of the people I know wouldn't have even minded the loss of ground within our foreign policy if his practice at home had been different.

Abcdxxxx · #17

Not to distract anyone from their Ronnie bashing here but ....

Ranxer, what exactly do you know about Saddam's education and health system? I asked you this before...and seriously, you sound stupid as fuck... being on the left or protesting this war doesn't mean you automatically support Saddam .... but dumb statements like yours sure make me wonder about a few of you fools.

VinceZeb · #18

ranxer, you do realize that everything you have is more than likely a part of corporate America. The computer you use, the internet access you have, everything has a hand in a corporation, big or small.

Jeanette X · #19

Quote:

How ironic that the more these "liberals" reveal themselves to America, the more they boost a president they so despise.

(sarcasm) Oh yes Ronnie, surely these examples speak for all/most liberals, just as the Ku Klux Klan and other extreme right wing groups speak for all/most conservatives.

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I can't think of a time where I've been proven wrong on a major issue.

Thats because you are too much of an ass to admit to yourself that you were wrong about something.

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You're trying so hard to be provocative so you can reclaim the crown of I-mockery's most disliked person from Vince, it's just sad.

Vince makes far more sense than Ronnie could ever hope to.

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ranxer, you do realize that everything you have is more than likely a part of corporate America. The computer you use, the internet access you have, everything has a hand in a corporation, big or small.

My objection is not to the existance of corperations, but rather to that they are not regulated enough in my opinion.

Ronnie Raygun · #20

Laugh it up. You are the only ones laughing.

"Your lense of Americans, just like your perspective of those you disagree with, comes from the Gods you worship, Ronnie. The talk radio mouth pieces, the slanted yellow journalism of Newsmax and Fox News, and anybody else who reinforces your naive little understandings."

The Gods I worship? You are so wrong it's funny. Example? I post on Planet Out......I would give you a few others but I don't want you following me around. I post here don't I? I welcome opposing views. I've said that countless times and I mean it.

"Who are these Americans that you so easily cast into one giant lot in order to simplify and ostracize? Aren't you against divisive politics? Aren't we "all" Americans, Ronnie....?"

By definition you are but some of you sure as hell don't act like it.

"Hey Ronnie, you think the IR.S., the Federal Government, and anybody who isn't a Republican in Washington is out to get you and take your money, right? Why do you support gun rights? You're in a militia and may blow up an abortion clinic one day, right Ronnie?"

Ummm......... Riiight.........Thank for proving my point. Yeah, everyones really out to get you Kevin.

"This war alone has proved WITHOUT A DOUBT how much of a liar and a fool you are. If I'm bettin' on the ponies, I want to see who YOU pick first."

Yeah! That makes sense. We've been in Iraq less than a month and haven't even officially looked for WMD yet on a grand scale. You better hope they don't find anything (which you know we will) because if we do, well, it's the end of you.

Spectre X · #21

you are a lot like me Ronnie, and I have scarred myself for life by saying this.

you MUST be right, you MUST win, you MUST prove your intelligence, you MUST absolutely demolish your opposition.

the only thing you succed in, is not on that list. the thing you succed in, is making points for other people but yourself.

furthermore, by saying you're not short-sighted, you prove just the opposite, being that you in fact, ARE, short sighted. if you cannot see this, you're an idiot, so, I guess you can't see it.

now, I don't have much debate experience, but you, are the worst debatist I have ever seen. you don't even debatem you just say a couple of things you think are fatcs, and absolutely disregard any valid arguements against yours.

please leave I-Mockery.com forever, and then, leave the realm of the living, for you are clearly not wanted in either.

Protoclown · #22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

"Who are these Americans that you so easily cast into one giant lot in order to simplify and ostracize? Aren't you against divisive politics? Aren't we "all" Americans, Ronnie....?"

By definition you are but some of you sure as hell don't act like it.

Now here's what I don't get, Ronnie. You SAY that you welcome opposing views, but then whenever anyone disagrees with you, you consider them Un-American. How exactly is that "welcoming different points of view"?

Jeanette X · #23

Quote:

The Gods I worship? You are so wrong it's funny. Example? I post on Planet Out......I would give you a few others but I don't want you following me around. I post here don't I? I welcome opposing views. I've said that countless times and I mean it.

Do you post on Planet Out to learn from these people, or to preach to them? Just because you post on a gay forum doesn't make you open-minded. The kind of narrow-minded bigotry I find on forums from people who are convinced it is their mission in the world to bring everyone over to their point of view is amazing.

Quote:

You better hope they don't find anything (which you know we will) because if we do, well, it's the end of you.

Well I for one don't care if there are WMD or not. War should only be the very last resort, and Bush did not exhaust all options before going to war. This is why I opposed it, not because I thought Saddam didn't have any WMD. I'm just relieved that this war went better than I thought it would.

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By definition you are but some of you sure as hell don't act like it.

How? And don't tell me we are unAmerican because we disagreed on an issue.