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El Blanco El Blanco is offline
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Old May 22nd, 2004, 10:10 AM        Brown v Board of Ed and the current state of black education
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120639,00.html

By Joanne Jacobs

To mark the 50th anniversary of Brown vs. the Board of Education, every media outlet in the country ran at least one school desegregation story. Nearly all say that desegregation has been a disappointment.


Integrating schools hasn't equalized achievement, writes Washington Post columnist William Raspberry.

Fifty years after Brown, we should have learned that there is no magic in white classmates. The magic lies at the intersection of educational opportunity and attitude -- the coming together of teachers who know how to teach and children who are ready to learn.

No one thing -- not the ballot, not changes in school governance, not desegregation -- will produce that happy confluence. We have to demand that the schools get ready for our children. But we also have to make sure, using every resource at our disposal, that our children are ready for school.

In the San Francisco Chronicle, Clarence Johnson argues that integration has failed because children of different races and genders learn differently. He wants "elite schools to meet the particular needs of the children who go there," such as three “dream schools” that will open in San Francisco this fall. The dream schools will require student uniforms, longer schedules, parental pledges of cooperation and rigorous academics.

I don't think children learn differently based on their race or gender, but I agree that schools targeted to the needs of specific students are more likely to be successful. Many students, of all races, need structure and rigor. It shouldn’t be just a dream.

He's Not Joking

The audience laughed and black leaders frowned when Bill Cosby mocked underclass blacks at a D.C. event commemorating the desegregation decision. From the Washington Post:

"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal," he declared. "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids -- $500 sneakers for what? And won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' . . .

"They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English," he exclaimed. "I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you aint,' 'Where you is' . . . And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. . . . Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. . . . You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

The Post's Hamil Harris reports that Cosby also turned his wrath to "the incarcerated," saying: "These are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake and then we run out and we are outraged, [saying] 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand?"

When Cosby finally concluded, Howard University President H. Patrick Swygert, NAACP President Kweisi Mfume and NAACP legal defense fund head Theodore Shaw came to the podium looking stone-faced. Shaw told the crowd that most people on welfare are not African American, and many of the problems his organization has addressed in the black community were not self-inflicted.

This AP story has more:

Comedian Bill Cosby wants black Americans to follow the example of civil rights leaders in improving their neighborhoods and reaching out for higher education.

"These people marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an education and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around," he said Monday evening at an NAACP gala commemorating the anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision 50 years earlier.

"Take the neighborhood back," Cosby said, chiding parents who do not take an active role in caring for their children.

. . . In one of the lighter moments, comedian Dick Gregory pretended to run off with the medal he presented to Cosby.

Cosby and his wife were honored for their donations to historically black colleges.

Black Flight

Urban black parents who care about their children's education are fleeing to charter and private schools, writes Samuel Freedman in the New York Times. He starts with a public school teacher who pays half her salary to send her sons to a private school.

There is nothing effete about the private education at the Whitfield School. Its campus consists of three cinderblock barracks tucked behind a Baptist church. The curriculum eschews the fashionable pedagogies of whole language and constructivist math. From pre-kindergarten to eighth grade, every pupil wears a uniform. And not a single child in a student body of 470 is white.

In her decision to enroll her children there, Ms. Jones has plenty of company among the Whitfield School parents. Probation officers, nurse's aides, office managers, subway conductors, these are the overlooked legions of the black working class. A vast majority serve actively in their churches and hold a strain of social conservatism alongside political liberalism. Their departure from urban school systems, not only in New York but also across the nation, represents one of the most significant and little-noticed trends in public education.

Democrats sound "ridiculous" when they dismiss school choice, Eduwonk writes.

Minority parents want good educational options now, not unproven plans with a time horizon that often exceeds the amount of time their children will even be in school.

Eduwonk also links to articles on the "problem" of inner-city charter schools that aren't racially diverse: In Boston and Fort Wayne, Ind., nearly all-black schools serve the needs of their students. Education is a higher priority for parents than racial mixing.

Closing the Gap

Schools in Norfolk, Va., are closing the achievement gap between black and white students, reports the St. Pete Times. Overall, the district is two-thirds black; 60 percent of students come from low-income families.

In 1998, 67 percent of Norfolk's white third-graders passed the state English exam. Only 41 percent of the district's black third-graders met that standard.

Five years later, the passing rate for black students had jumped to 61 percent.

A black superintendent named John Simpson took over in 1998 with a mandate to improve achievement. He stressed using data to improve teaching.

Letters

Dale Manor, an auto mechanic in Brooklyn, Mich., writes:

Many kids are not college material. They are treated [as] inferior if they want to be in skilled trades. Keep up the pressure!

Jeannine Stergios of Merrimack, N.H., writes:

Vocational schools are being ignored here in New Hampshire; the elitists in academia turn up their noses at anything that doesn't involve college.

They should give seventh graders tests to gauge their likes, dislikes, as well as their abilities, and then design classes that might capture these kids' attention long enough to get them through school. I see so many good kids drop out of school because what is taught is not anything they will ever need in the real world. Kids are bored!!

For example, my daughter was in slow classes due to having suffered brain damage as an infant from meningitis. She really wanted to learn, but was hampered by her disability. In her senior year in high school, her low-level English class was reading Beowulf!!

I went to the school and demanded that they teach these kids (who were not going to college) something useful such as how to fill out a job application, how to find a job, how to budget their money, open a bank account, etc. They looked at me in amazement and actually changed the curriculum.

I discovered that kids who are not college bound are left by the wayside. I would like to see more people from the real world teaching high school.

PS: I also have a son with an MBA who graduated last week with a 4.0 GPA and two younger boys who are honor students. Guess what? One wants to be an auto technician!! I say good for him: Do what you love and you will be happy.

John L. Tatum of Winchester, Va., writes:

I own a construction and development company, and find it almost impossible to find any young person with any trade experience. There is a vocational school in the community but students that choose to attend it are chastised by school administrators. There aren't any entry-level, skilled tradesmen available, so I am forced to pay top dollar for older tradesmen which leads to higher priced homes. Immigrant labor is just as costly because we can't communicate. They refuse to learn English, so I end up having to replace their work. And, they go back to their native countries for months out of a year.

Mike Atchison of Kingwood, Texas writes:

Early in my management career, I volunteered as a “real world” counselor at a local junior college, almost always spending time with freshmen. Most of them were minorities; many were also first-in-the-family college students. Very few knew what they really wanted to do after they graduated.

I told them that in the real world a good craftsman -- plumber, carpenter, mechanic, etc. -- earned almost as much as an average so-called professional (not the top ones, of course), and they had the advantage of a skill set that was transportable and needed anywhere they went in the world. I didn't tell them this to get them to change direction, just to put some perspective in their lives.

More than once a student would tell me they thought that it was easier to get into college than to find a way to learn a craft.

Glenn Sacks writes:

According to Dan Walters, “To suggest that some kids might, in fact, be better off as mechanics, carpenters, electricians or plumbers is to risk the wrath of parents, or even allegations of racist tracking."

Walters makes an excellent point. I used to teach in the inner cities and saw many boys who would have made good skilled tradesmen and who could have supported their families that way. However, it was not PC to suggest that they go in that direction. Not only does this harm the kids, but I always thought the disparaging of the skilled trades was enormously disrespectful to the students' tradesman fathers.

Joanne Jacobs writes about education and other issues at JoanneJacobs.com. She’s writing a book, Ride the Carrot Salad, about a start-up charter high school in San Jose.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is as long as fuck and I appologize, I just thought that was all really good and some great points are made.

Anybody have any thoughts? Has intergration failed? If so, why?

What are the solutions? Do charter schools and vouchers have a place in all this?

Was Cosby right? What about what seems to be the predominate attitude among blacks in the media that its cool to be a failure? That education and high paying jobs are for "sell outs"?

What about pushing trade schools as an option?

Quote:
I went to the school and demanded that they teach these kids (who were not going to college) something useful such as how to fill out a job application, how to find a job, how to budget their money, open a bank account, etc. They looked at me in amazement and actually changed the curriculum.
I found that really interesting because its something I think every student should have, no matter where they are going after high school.
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The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
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Old May 22nd, 2004, 10:43 AM       
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Old May 22nd, 2004, 05:30 PM       
This may be a bit of a tangent, but about a week ago I received "sensitivity training" for my job. It wasn't quite what I expected, though.

It was conducted by a black woman who teaches in my district to predominantly poor minorities of color. The crux of her lecture was that teachers have essentially become too scared to teach, that a lot of the "feel good, multicultural" liberalism that has dominated educational theory over the past decade or so has only hurt poor minorities, particularly African-Americans.

What was interesting about her is that she conducted her 4th grade class much like a bilingual spanish class. She herself grew up in poverty, and knew how to speak what she called "the black english." So she will say things to her kids like "boy, you go get you this," or "go use it," but then she'll make a point to create distinctions between "black english" and proper grammar. It seems to work, because she kills all the testing standards each year.

Anyway, I guess parts of this article reminded me of that. I always start to cringe however when a debate on education turns into a stump speech for "educational choice." I think our educational issues transcend merely that debate, and while it might work in case studies here and there, I think a full shift over towards that direction would merely result in a similar mess, yet only privatized.

BTW, there was an interesting Op/Ed today in the NY Times pertaining to another signifigant race case from the 1950s-- Hernandez vs. Texas. A good read: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/22/opinion/22LOPE.html
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Old May 23rd, 2004, 10:41 AM       
Quote:
It was conducted by a black woman who teaches in my district to predominantly poor minorities of color. The crux of her lecture was that teachers have essentially become too scared to teach, that a lot of the "feel good, multicultural" liberalism that has dominated educational theory over the past decade or so has only hurt poor minorities, particularly African-Americans.
So, whats your opinion on that? I know what you think about standardized testing, but what about the massaging the ego of these kids?

I agree that one solution isn't going to fix such a large problem, but we have to get the ball rolling somehow.

I want to know what place do this and the other solutions have.
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Old May 24th, 2004, 04:51 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Blanco
Quote:
It was conducted by a black woman who teaches in my district to predominantly poor minorities of color. The crux of her lecture was that teachers have essentially become too scared to teach, that a lot of the "feel good, multicultural" liberalism that has dominated educational theory over the past decade or so has only hurt poor minorities, particularly African-Americans.
So, whats your opinion on that? I know what you think about standardized testing, but what about the massaging the ego of these kids?
I disagree with it. I don't know that you're really even "massaging their ego," all you're doing is creating what are essentially different standards within the classroom, which sucks. I understand that one needs to respect the various levels these kids are at, but I personally think that children (particularly young ones) are highly capable, and often appreciative, of being challenged. I know that from my own tutoring experience, I felt that I was accomplishing the most when I had a kid read a book that was too hard for them. They struggled, tried harder, and then requested to read it next time, give it another shot, etc.

As for standardized testing, I understand that it's necessary, but I have personally seen the strain placed on both students and teachers who are CONSTANTLY testing....

Quote:
I agree that one solution isn't going to fix such a large problem, but we have to get the ball rolling somehow.

I want to know what place do this and the other solutions have.
I'm not going to pretend that I even have any idea as to how we can fix it. One thing I've noticed is that it has to start early, whatever may be the case. Making adjustments solely at the high school level seems counter-productive to me. By 4th or 5th grade, many of these kids are set on the path they're going to take, IMO.

Capacity at schools seems to be an issue. It seems to me that there's little you can do about that, either. Particularly where I work, with immigrants from Mexico, and even all parts of Asia.

I think I'm a supporter of pay for performance when it comes to teachers, I would just hate to see test scores as the ONLY benchmark for that....

And then there are the parents. Geez, what a mess that tends to be.....I hate to be the Malthusian here, but these kids (namely the parents) need to stop having kids.
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Old May 24th, 2004, 05:05 PM       
I think that he was being clever in that not only was he letting his thoughts be known but he did in such a way that one couldn't say he was indicting any one ethnic group. One couldn't say that his comments were directed toward african-american youths but neither could one say they weren't. If anyone could be thought of as racist, it was the NAACP representative who immediately jumped to the conclusion that Bill was referring to african-american youths when nothing of the kind was actually said. Rather telling, don't you think?
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Old May 24th, 2004, 05:21 PM       
The problem is that classrooms are failing on their own right, and here we are expecting what goes on in the classroom to heal what goes on in communities. We still cling to a really outdated concept of intergration and I think part of it is most Americans are truly out of touch. We now know that a good education doesn't require a high rent neighborhood for one thing. The idea of "black speech" is ridiculous, but that you have to be culturally aware because that's what really makes you tolerant and unbiased in the classroom. There was this period where we embraced differences and celebrated them, but now we've adjusted to this whole other fear of it and so everything it "the curriculum". The entire school district has to read the same fucking books. We have special Magnet schools that are above these rules...supposedly... but this means that bonehead English classes, and AP classes have to use the same books. I grew up in San Francisco, where they forced in the Rainbow Curriculum (after my time) and assigned EVERYONE an Amy Tam book at some point... but what the hell does that really teach you about Asians, or Asian Americans? The Asian kids did just fine without Joy Luck Club being required reading. I doubt that's what met their needs. Meanwhile, White youth have embraced minority culture in America. The key is just to give up on all the bullshit compassion stuff, or pandering "we're gonna learn how to speak slang" crap, and just treat kids with respect, like they're smart, and sure enough they'll rise to the occassion. That's true no matter where or what you're teaching them.
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Old May 24th, 2004, 05:44 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
The idea of "black speech" is ridiculous, but that you have to be culturally aware because that's what really makes you tolerant and unbiased in the classroom.
I'm not even certain of what you mean here, but I think to go into a lower-class community, be it black, white, latino, or whatever, and not respect that community would be a big mistake. By teaching in proper english and "slang," it allowsa teacher to create a compare and contrast lesson. I certainly don't blieve we should be pandering to inability, however, there are different approaches to getting around that.

Quote:
I grew up in San Francisco, where they forced in the Rainbow Curriculum (after my time) and assigned EVERYONE an Amy Tam book at some point... but what the hell does that really teach you about Asians, or Asian Americans? The Asian kids did just fine without Joy Luck Club being required reading. I doubt that's what met their needs.
Right, that is dumb, however from my experience, most Asians want a little bit of both, but they prioritize (and when I say "they" I mean the parents) learning english at an early age, and don't even begin teaching them (for example) Vietnamese until they have mastered english first. As they grow older, they begin to learn more about their culture and language, and can do so without falling behind here.

The spanish speaking classes are different. Many of these kids are kept in primarily spanish speaking classes up until as late as 5th or 6th grade. This, IMO, is problematic.

Quote:
The key is just to give up on all the bullshit compassion stuff, or pandering "we're gonna learn how to speak slang" crap, and just treat kids with respect, like they're smart, and sure enough they'll rise to the occassion. That's true no matter where or what you're teaching them.
Right, except that there is a clear link between socio-economic conditions, education, and dialect. Telling kids over and over again how smart they are can be good for self-esteem, but not if they're not absorbing the material. I think it may require a multi-leveled approach. I think one area of the country varies from another, and to create a uniform "well just teach them and pat them on the back" policy might not work. What good does it do if you're teaching children to speak, read and write proper english, if they can't distinguish it from the broken down english they may be speaking at home....? Once again, different solutions work for different places, but simply teaching out of a text-book to different kids may not be the answer....
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Old May 24th, 2004, 05:53 PM       
Too much crap to read, but I will say that Bill Cosby is a genius. He's one of the "good ones."

Look at me, I contributed to something political!
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Old May 24th, 2004, 06:00 PM       
You are worthless.
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Old May 24th, 2004, 06:44 PM       
At least I'm not a black knucklehead.

Come on, there's a LOT to read. I read up through Cosby's comments, and I can't imagine anything topping those, so I stopped to give praise.
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Old May 25th, 2004, 03:55 AM       
Well then I think we agree that a blanket curriculum is a bad idea. There should be regional approaches.

I'm of the opinion that a teacher should be adaptable, and understanding, but that doesn't mean they should learn to talk like their students. Just because you speak slang, or what some consider broken english, doesn't mean you don't understand proper english. Most slang is just style. Sure it takes more then saying "you're smart, you're smart" to get students to operate on an intelligent level, but I do think respect is a huge motivator. The only difference between people is exposure, and that's an troubling issue wether you live in Thousand Oaks or the South Bronx. See, I wouldn't want a teacher to chastise a kid for speaking slang, but they sure as hell shouldn't make the slang a proper part of their curriculum. You wouldn't go into Special Ed. and teach kids how to be dissabled, or whatever won them "special" status. Why would you think kids can't distinguish proper english they're learning, from whatever they're speaking at home?

With that said, I know there are programs that teach math problems through rhyming, and they have huge success. That's genius compared to a teacher who's added the word "fittin'" to their classroom lexicon.

I think what's going on with ESL students might be a different conversation.
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