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Geggy Geggy is offline
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Old May 24th, 2008, 07:55 AM        Two can play the game
Where are those Iranian arms in Iraq?

The United States military command in Iraq continues to talk about an alleged pipeline of Iranian weapons to Iraqi Shi'ites opposing the US occupation, implying that they have become dependent on Iran for indirect-fire weapons and rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs).

But US officials have failed thus far to provide evidence that would support that claim, and a long-delayed US military report on Iranian arms is unlikely to offer any data on what proportion of the weapons in the hands of Shi'ite fighters are from Iran and what proportion comes from purchases on the open market.

http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JE24Ak02.html

Iran mosque blast plotters admit Israeli, US links

Iran's chief prosecutor said bombers who caused a deadly blast at a mosque in Shiraz had confessed of links to Israel and the United States, the ISNA student news agency reported on Friday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080523...l_080523174601

Pakistan May Turn Over U.S. 'Spies' to Iran

In another sign of growing tensions with the United States, Pakistan is threatening to turn over to Iran six members of a tribal militant group Iran claims are "spies" for the CIA.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4913927&page=1
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pac-man pac-man is offline
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Old May 26th, 2008, 05:08 AM       
So?
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WhiteRat WhiteRat is offline
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Old May 26th, 2008, 10:49 AM       
Weren't there pictures a while back of alleged munitions with Iranian nomenclatures and other identifying marks?
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Geggy Geggy is offline
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Old May 27th, 2008, 05:58 AM       
post pics please.
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Kybo Ren Kybo Ren is offline
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Old May 28th, 2008, 04:41 PM       


http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...es_iranian.php

Iran made, but they don't say how they got in Iraq.
and there's this:
February 18, 2007

From WMDs to EFPs: I Think We've Seen This Movie Before

Here we go again! In the run up to the invasion of Iraq, George W. Bush lied through his teeth when he said that Saddam Hussein was in possession of Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD's) and used this as one of the dizzying array of reasons for deposing Saddam. Remember the other reasons? Among these were: Iraq tried to obtain yellowcake uranium from Niger; Sadddam had bought aluminum tubes for processing enriched uranium; there were links between Saddam and al Qaeda (and so Iraq was complicit in 9/11); Iraq had unmanned drones capable of attacking our friends (Israel); and Iraq had mobile labs to manufacture biological weapons. Bush's feet have never been held to the fire for this pack of lies and deceptions, thanks to a weak-kneed Congress.

Now the target is Iran and we're hearing that Iran is furnishing sophisticated Explosively Formed Penetrators (or Projectiles) - EFP's - to insurgents in Iraq. "EFP's" is Pentagonese for particular kinds of shaped charges that have been around a long time and used by Sunni insurgents against British and American troops long before the alleged connection to Shia Iran was even mentioned. Bush is whipping up war fever by demonizing Iran and a compliant press is once again going along with his act. I think we have seen this movie before.

We Americans had best check out the facts about these allegations before we are stampeded into yet another military misadventure by Bush and Cheney. This time the consequences would be much more dire for the world. At least there is more skepticism on the part of some of the press this time around.

All this business about EFP's became public in an unusual briefing by two anonymous military officers in Baghdad last Sunday, February 11. (See the article by Robert Dreyfuss) No other U.S. officials were present. Cameras and tape recorders were barred from the backgound-only briefing. Some photographs of alleged EFP's were shown and the briefers said that Iranian leaders at the highest level had authorized the smuggling of these munitions into Iraq to be used against American forces.

Alleged Iranian-supplied EFPs
It was claimed that the serial numbers on the munitions could be traced back to Iran. Note, however, that the serial numbers are not written in Farsi, the Iranian language, and the Iranian ambassdor to the United Nations Javad Zarif said that the date markings are American-style, i.e., with the month first. Zarif also said, "There is every reason to believe that this evidence is fabricated." As to why an Iranian made weapon would have English markings a U.S. intelligence official declared, "That's a very good question." Now, just because the WFP's may have been made in Iran, this doesn't mean that they were provided in Iraq by Iranian agents. U.S.-made weapons are used all over the world, but that doesn't mean that the U.S. government supplied them to the users. It looks like we're being flim-flammed again.

Even U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Peter Pace distanced himself from the Badhdad briefers' claims: "It is clear that Iranians are involved, and it's clear that materials from Iran are involved, but I would not say by what I know that the Iranian government clearly knows or is complicit." Of course, the Iranian government denies giving sophisticated weapons to militants in Iraq to use against American forces.

In a revealing articleAndrew Cockburn writes that in November 2006 U.S. troops found copper discs 5 inches in diameter in a Baghdad machine shop and such a disc can be combined with a high powered explosive and a pipe (high quality steel oil pipe is good) to make an effective EFP and that it would cost no more than $30. So, it doesn't take highly sophisticated machining to make an EFP as the Bush administration is claiming.

Explosively Formed
Penetrator Device

An Explosively Formed Penetrator utilizes something called the "Misznay-Schardin Effect" to tranform a copper disc into a nearly molten projectile that can easily cleave through armor. A projectile accelerates to 2,000 to 3,000 feet per second and uses its kinetic energy to effect penetration. Only about 2.5% of the 3000 Improvised Explosive Devices (IED's) used in Iraq by insurgents in the month of January were EFP's, but they account for 15% of bomb casualties. EFP's have previously been used by the IRA in Northern Ireland against the British, Hezbollah "drove the Israelis out of Lebanon" with them, and Afghans utilized EFP's against Soviets (the U.S. furnished them).
Misznay-Schardin Effect in Action


It really doesn't make sense for Iran to provide such weapons to Iraqis to use against U.S. troops. The Iranians are Shia, while it has been Iraqi Sunnis who have been proactively targeting Americans. It is not in Iran's interest to destablize the Shia-dominated government in Iraq. The Bush administration claims that 170 Americans haved died via Iranian-supplied EFP's since 2004. However, in April and August 2004 the U.S. waged a minor war against Muqtada al-Sadr's militia army and they are Shia. So, the mass of American casualties due to EFP's used by Shia could have occurred during this period.

It seems clear to this observer that this business of Iranian-supplied EFP's is just a pretext to help set the stage for an air attack on Iranian nuclear and military facilities. There will be more allegations by Bush and Company and perhaps a Gulf of Tonkin-type incident will be manufactured to stampede the American people into yet another unjustified military misadventure. Hopefully the Democrats and disaffected Republicans in Congress will put a stop to this madness.




***********************************************
Also read somewhere Iranian weapons were being brought in by Israelis & Americans
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pac-man pac-man is offline
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Old May 28th, 2008, 05:20 PM       
Kudos to Geggy and Kybo Ren for putting all this out there, but I'm thinking/hoping this will fizzle out after Dubya leaves office... unless Grandpa McCain wins the Presidency.
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Grislygus Grislygus is offline
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Old May 28th, 2008, 06:18 PM       
Fizzle out?




Really?
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Old May 28th, 2008, 06:51 PM       
Fizzle out, peter out, fade away, quiet down, disappear...

Look, as we're all experienced historians, political scientists, and all around know-it-alls, I'm sure we can dispense with the small details. This Iran giving Iraq weapons shit has been floating around since Rummy was running the War Department. What has come of it? A lot of posturing by Bush and Ahmadinejad and a lot of discussion threads on forums.

I don't see troops crossing any borders or planes dropping any bombs between the US and Iran. And while Dubya and Mahmoud may both be fucking retards, neither seriously wants to be that guy. So, the accusations, threats, and threads will continue until Obama or Clinton take office. War mongering and profiteering has been fun, but the good ol' boys in the White House and Pentagon are gonna take their money and run.

Bottom line, we ain't going to war with Iran unless McCain takes office, and even in that case it would be highly unlikely. I only say that he'll make it happen because the Republican party of late has needed Middle Eastern terrorism, illegal immigration, etc. to fuel their fear campaign and keep Americans oblivious to real issues. I'm not particularly worried about who's giving Shiite militias weapons when I'm spending 3 fucking dollars and 80 god damned cents on a gallon of gas. Fucking $3.80 for the cheap shit, man.
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...I proved, son, without a shadow of a doubt, you ain't got what it takes anymore! You sit there, and you thump your bible, and you say your prayers, and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your psalms, talk about John 3:16; Austin 3:16 says, "I just whipped your ass!"
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Kybo Ren Kybo Ren is offline
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Old May 28th, 2008, 08:13 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by pac-man View Post
Kudos to Geggy and Kybo Ren for putting all this out there, but I'm thinking/hoping this will fizzle out after Dubya leaves office... unless Grandpa McCain wins the Presidency.
Geggy Rules! he makes me feel less alone in my terror/paranoia/enlightenment

but don't thank me for for putting this out there, THANK GEORGE HW BUSH!!
he's probally done more to put weapons in Iran than anyone else.
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pac-man pac-man is offline
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Old May 28th, 2008, 08:55 PM       
Actually, that's thanks him, Republican Party Superhero Ron Reagan, and the great Colonel Oliver North.

I was thanking you guys for putting some relevant news out there, btw. Anything that helps bring awareness to how fucked up that whole situation over there is deserves kudos in my book.

Now excuse me while I look outside my window for men in black.
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...I proved, son, without a shadow of a doubt, you ain't got what it takes anymore! You sit there, and you thump your bible, and you say your prayers, and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your psalms, talk about John 3:16; Austin 3:16 says, "I just whipped your ass!"
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Old May 28th, 2008, 09:41 PM       
I don't think you guys fully understand what is going on here.

This has always been and will always be. No government is above corruption and any nations ultimate goal is global domination.

Pat yourself on the back all you want, but there isn't a dam thing you can do about it. Instead of exposing things to people and telling them that there is hope, how about telling them the truth. There is no hope.
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Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Old May 28th, 2008, 11:24 PM       
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Originally Posted by Tadao View Post
There is no hope.
Well aren't you just the right little ray of sunshine?

Unfortunately, this doesn't make your opinion any less accurate.
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Grislygus Grislygus is offline
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Old May 29th, 2008, 03:38 PM       
Don't worry, all tensions between the United States and Iran will fly away in a cloud of magic fairy dust after Dubya leaves
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Kybo Ren Kybo Ren is offline
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Old May 29th, 2008, 04:06 PM       
No man is entirely good or evil.
Any government will make good use of treacherous killers, manipulators and general ne'er do wells. In many sitiuations it is beneficial to have fuckers out there playing the field with general allegiance to our country. And same fuckers (should) know that anything goes, unless you get caught-then its time to pay the piper. I hear many a military man is thankful for Bush administration for giving them someone to shoot.
The nuclear bomb was a terrible thing- but in USA it is an amazing achievment to be celebrated! It's easy to congradulate it existence when you're the one pushing the button, instead of a radioactive shadow on the wall.

My main grief is not how it's done as it is how it's employed.
send the military to attack enemies-good
fail to properly arm military-bad
fail to provide adequate health care for military-very bad
and that's just the tip of the iceberg for administrative fuckups since 2000, who couldn't list blatant wrongs made since then?
all in all we should always want more from our government- it will always be imperfect.
The only completly good man was Jesus- and he's not considered man, but God
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Tadao Tadao is offline
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Old May 29th, 2008, 04:13 PM       
"fail to properly arm military-bad
fail to provide adequate health care for military-very bad
and that's just the tip of the iceberg for administrative fuckups since 2000, who couldn't list blatant wrongs made since then?"

We are not in the know of why these things happened. I doubt it was an accident.
There are many checks and balances in our well oiled machine of domination. While I can't explain why our government would do it, I sure as hell can't say it was all because of the Bush regime accidental ignorance.
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Old May 30th, 2008, 04:41 AM       
Quote:
Don't worry, all tensions between the United States and Iran will fly away in a cloud of magic fairy dust after Dubya leaves
Whew, that's a relief!
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...I proved, son, without a shadow of a doubt, you ain't got what it takes anymore! You sit there, and you thump your bible, and you say your prayers, and it didn't get you anywhere! Talk about your psalms, talk about John 3:16; Austin 3:16 says, "I just whipped your ass!"
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davinxtk davinxtk is offline
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Old Jun 2nd, 2008, 11:58 PM       
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Originally Posted by Tadao View Post
I don't think you guys fully understand what is going on here.

A meeting of the minds, indeed.
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