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theapportioner · #1

The position of many Christians is that it is okay to be a homosexual person, but that homosexual acts are morally condemnable.

Now, putting aside the recent Supreme Court decision overturning anti-sodomy laws, what is the connection between homosexual acts and gay marriage? Is the idea that gay marriage would encourage homosexual activity? If so, how does this follow?

Of course, this is preposterous. I seriously doubt making gay marriages legal would have any effect on the incidence of homosexual acts.

It is one thing to say that God made marriages sacred - it is entirely another thing to say that and condemn homosexual acts in the same breath (Bishop O'Malley of Boston has done this) - for they are not condemning the acts at all, but the people.

theapportioner · #2

Addendum: It should be noted that Massachusetts Bishops are opposed to not only gay marriage, but also civil unions or any sort of benefits for domestic same sex partners (source: the Boston Globe).

El Blanco · #3

Quote:

Now, putting aside the recent Supreme Court decision overturning anti-sodomy laws, what is the connection between homosexual acts and gay marriage? Is the idea that gay marriage would encourage homosexual activity? If so, how does this follow?

Of course, this is preposterous. I seriously doubt making gay marriages legal would have any effect on the incidence of homosexual acts.

Uh, I think you've been watching too much Married with Children. Married people have sex.

And, according to Christianity, marriage and sex are for procreation, to raise children. Thats what the problem with homosexuality is.

Quote:

It is one thing to say that God made marriages sacred - it is entirely another thing to say that and condemn homosexual acts in the same breath (Bishop O'Malley of Boston has done this) - for they are not condemning the acts at all, but the people.

I don't see how you draw this conclusion. Saying you don't believe in same sex marriages is a far cry from damning homosexuals to hell.

And personally, I don't see why the government needs to be involved in a marriage or why homosexuals are so intent on being allowed to have them. Is all this stink being raised for a tax write off?

thebiggameover · #4

[quote="El Blanco"]

Quote:

Is all this stink being raised for a tax write off?

yes...

sspadowsky · #5

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Blanco

I don't see how you draw this conclusion. Saying you don't believe in same sex marriages is a far cry from damning homosexuals to hell.

And personally, I don't see why the government needs to be involved in a marriage or why homosexuals are so intent on being allowed to have them. Is all this stink being raised for a tax write off?

Have you been living in a fucking cave? They want equal protection under the law! That kooky provision from that nutty ol' constitution! If gay marriages are legalized, gay couples can share health benefits, and have the same rights straight married people have. They might as well try to pass an amendment revoking the right of Blacks to vote. It's the same fucking thing.

This topic pisses me off worse than almost anything else. They're human fucking beings, they're entitled to the same rights and protections as anyone else, and if you want to condemn gay marriage because your religion tells you to, then fuck you, and fuck your bullshit fairy-tale religion, too, because THAT'S the real problem.

I can't believe we're having this fucking discussion in America in the twenty-first fucking century. Supposedly educated and enlightened people actually believe that gays are less human than heterosexuals. No dancing around that one, folks. If you think gays don't deserve the same rights as straight people, you think they are less human.

God, I hate stupid people.[/quote]

sspadowsky · #6

And any Catholics that have a beef with what I just said can stick it, because any institution that condemns homosexuality while shuffling child-rapists around like a deck of cards (without a trace of irony), is a lot more fucked-up.

theapportioner · #7

Quote:

Uh, I think you've been watching too much Married with Children. Married people have sex.

DUH. But someone who is gay doesn't need to get married to have sex, obviously. For a committed couple to get married won't have any bearing on how often they have sex, at least I don't see how.

Quote:

And, according to Christianity, marriage and sex are for procreation, to raise children. Thats what the problem with homosexuality is.

My point is this - many Christians draw a line between "homosexuality" and "homosexual acts". For instance Archbishop O'Malley is very careful to condemn the latter and not the former. I disagree with their position on gay marriage, but that's not the thrust of my message here - the thrust is this: it's one thing for a Christian to oppose gay marriage. You can say it's in the scripture or whatever. Fair enough. It's ANOTHER thing to say you oppose gay marriage, justifying your argument by condemning "homosexual acts" at the same time. For gay marriage is only indirectly linked to gay sex. I mean, we would have no problem whatsoever if a man and woman getting married, even if they do not intend to have sex. So obviously having sex is not a prerequisite for marriage. It is entirely conceivable for two men or two women to love each other and want to get married, and not have sex, or seldom have sex. What is so wrong about a civil union, at the very least?

Quote:

I don't see how you draw this conclusion. Saying you don't believe in same sex marriages is a far cry from damning homosexuals to hell.

See above. Like I said, saying you are opposed to to gay marriage is one thing; using the sin of "homosexual acts" to oppose it is another, and I think there is something hypocritical about this. Either there is a total disconnect in their reasoning abilities, or it's not "homosexual acts" but "homosexuality" itself that bothers them.

Quote:

And personally, I don't see why the government needs to be involved in a marriage or why homosexuals are so intent on being allowed to have them. Is all this stink being raised for a tax write off?

I agree with you on the first point.

theapportioner · #8

And what you said about procreation and marriage -- I doubt Teresa Heinz was capable of having more babies when she married John Kerry. If that is all marriage is about, then why should they have the right to be married if they cannot produce progeny?

mew barios · #9

man i'm so tired of this. especially here, where the state government is currently mulling over making a definition of marriage part of the state constitution. and yet, the only reasoning people give is crap like 'must protect sanctity of marriage :O' an 'arg think of the children c..@!'. my fondest wish is that someone would give me a reasonable, logical explanation as to why homosexuals should be denied any legal recognition of their relationships.

*gate out :O*

VinceZeb · #10

sspadowsky:

Since you want to come off as so fucking smart when it comes to gay marriage and "equal rights", I want you to honestly answer this one question:

What right(s) does a straight man or woman have that a gay man or woman does not have?

I strongly advise you to think carefully before you go and flap your gums.

Dole · #11

He is talking about the rights that married men and women have that gay couples don't have. There are lots in my country: right of inheritance, guardianship of children, tax issues...I presume their are similar ones in the US.

Its nice to see you only pop back for the occasional bitter, sour, types-like-he-is-crying post Vinthypoosywoosy.

sspadowsky · #12

Quote:

Originally Posted by dim bulb

sspadowsky:

Since you want to come off as so fucking smart when it comes to gay marriage and "equal rights", I want you to honestly answer this one question:

What right(s) does a straight man or woman have that a gay man or woman does not have?

I strongly advise you to think carefully before you go and flap your gums.

And I strongly advise you, Professor Gumflapper, to plant your lips on my ass.

Well, dingus, first of all, one thing gays can't do that straight people can is get married. That's just for openers. Dole addressed some of the other ones. I'll drop back in after a while to discuss further.

Brandon · #13

He's just upset about your pedophile priest comment.

AChimp · #14

Oh boy! I can hardly wait to hear what Obese Adolescent Orator has to say about this topic!

Maybe we should open up marriage to private industry so people can shop around for the version they like.

punkgrrrlie10 · #15

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

sspadowsky:

Since you want to come off as so fucking smart when it comes to gay marriage and "equal rights", I want you to honestly answer this one question:

What right(s) does a straight man or woman have that a gay man or woman does not have?

I strongly advise you to think carefully before you go and flap your gums.

They have the fundamental right to marry. Guaranteed by case law. Look up the case Loving v. Virginia. It struck down miscegenation laws which prevented people from marrying others of a different color. In the opinion they find that marriage is a fundamental right of citizenship which the gov't can't deny. Perhaps YOU should think carefully before YOU flap your gums.

El Blanco · #16

sspad, are you trying to be the board's offical drama queen or something? I'm sorry I have beliefs different than you. It was wrong of me to grow up in a different enviroment and be taught values by my parents which are probably not identical to yours. Next time I want to voice an opinion and join what I believe is an open discussion, I'll know better.

That being said, my whole point is why the government gets involved to begin with. I really don't get it. Am I being discriminated against because I am single and don't get all these nifty benefits?

As for the whole "trying to save the sanctity of marriage", why not look into the 50% divorce rate in this country? I think thats a little more dangerous.

But, hey, what do I know? I'm just some stupid person who believes i na fairy-tale religion.

sspadowsky · #17

Well, I'm glad we cleared that up. Thilly.

KevinTheOmnivore · #18

It's tough bein' Catholic, aint it.

El Blanco · #19

meh. This shit don't bug me. Its Lent that really wears on me.

sspadowsky · #20

In all seriousness, Blanco, this is no different than denying Blacks the right to vote, or Mexicans from getting drivers licenses. It's not about the government getting involved, it's about honoring the freedoms that everyone is already supposed to have.

If that were not the case, the Declaration would have read, "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all White, land-holding, slave-owning men are created equal, while ******s, women, indians, queers and kikes are not."

You think I'm being a "drama queen"? Fuck you. If you truly believed in equality and equal protection under the law, you'd be right alongside me on this one. And I primarily made the Catholic remark because I knew it would piss off Vince.

It's 2004, for Christ's sake. We should be ashamed that it was barely 50 years ago that Blacks were not allowed to play baseball with Whites.

I get so blindly fucking enraged when this sort of thing comes up, because it just goes to prove that we never learn from history.

EDIT: Well, shit. Now I feel guilty for saying "fuck you," because you went all nice and made a good joke. No hard feelings.

theapportioner · #21

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Blanco

sspad, are you trying to be the board's offical drama queen or something?

At first I read this as "drag queen". Whoo, time for bed...

VinceZeb · #22

sspadowsky is just laying in way so he can marry his boyfriend. Furthermore, gay people have the exact same rights as same people. If a gay man wants to marry a woman, he sure can. If a straight man wants to marry a woman, he can. Men can't marry men and women cant mary women. Joe blow can't marry a farm animal, a piece of fruit, or a blow up doll. Gay activists want the laws changed to benefit them and to give them MORE rights.

People try to bring this up as civil rights, when it isn't. Minorities in this country had LESS rights than white people did. They were DENIED basic rights that white had. That was unjust. Gay people are not denied any rights. Gay people have discriminatonary protection in our law books. Straight people don't. Gay people have the same rights as straight people do and can do the same exact things straight people do. I can't marry 10 women, a gay guy can't marry his pitcher. Welcome to life.

Dole · #23

"If a gay man wants to marry a woman, he sure can. If a straight man wants to marry a woman, he can. Men can't marry men and women cant mary women. Joe blow can't marry a farm animal, a piece of fruit, or a blow up doll. "

-You're just prejudiced. Thats it. Enough with all the indignation. If you equate a same sex partnership to that of a man and a "farm animal, a piece of fruit, or a blow up doll" what the fuck does that say about you?

And every time I hear someone moaning to the effect of 'what about us white straight males? where are our rights' etc, it makes me want to puke. Its just laughably ignorant.