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  #51  
Perndog Perndog is offline
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 02:41 AM       
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( aside from Tom Bombadil of course)
This guy says he didn't read the book. But he knows about Tom Bombadil. What gives?
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  #52  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 02:42 AM       
lol when Theoden said "Forth Eorlingas" I wept like a little girl

-willie
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  #53  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 08:27 AM       
Oh my... GOD. That was most definitely, most definitiously the best movie I have ever seen. There were some choices in the end I didn't agree with, but it didn't change that this was godlike. A quick run-through:

-When the movie started, it took me a while to realize I was looking at Andy Serkis. I liked the brief "devolution" backstory, and I think the non-book readers will have appreciated it too.

-Pippin's song gave me chills.

-When Sam and Gollum had the little talk about 'sneakin' I thought of Willie's comments in the Two Towers Extended Edition thread :o

-Almost everybody got their chance to shine... save for maybe Gimli and Legolas, but they had plenty of moments in the previous movie. Eowyn was terrific, Merry and Pippin managed to break out of the "those two other hobbits" classification, and Sam... Sam kicked mountainloads of ass. He was the star of the movie for me, and Sean Astin should get an Oscar or something.

-The fight with the Oliphaunts reminded me of my favorite scene from Star Wars; the battle on Hoth, against the AT-STs.

-Much as I didn't tire from the mass battles, the better part of the movie was obviously for Sam, Frodo and Gollum. The end of the ring was as breathtaking as I'd imagined it. It was so great to see Gollum throw aside all the facade and just try take the ring at all cost.

I think that's all I gots to say 'bout thayat. In the end I did feel that too many liberties had been taken from the book. It's been long since I read Return of the King, but I distinctly remember either Merry or Pippin dying under the fallen body of a troll at the battle at the Black Gates. I don't think they should've taken that out. I also thought (but wasn't sure) that Aragorn was almost mortally wounded at that battle, and was eventually healed with Eowyn by his side. I don't remember Arwen showing up at all anymore, but maybe I'm wrong. Jackson seemed to want to spare the audience the rather melancholic ending Tolkien wrote, but I think he overdid it. In the books, even defeating Sauron couldn't stop the slow decay of the world, and you didn't really see that now.
What I did think was a good choice, was dropping the Hobbits' homecoming and finding the Shire industrialized. I hated that in the book, it was like Superman coming home from saving the universe and having the battle his landlord for another fifteen minutes.
Looks like they also went by on Sam's eventual departure for the Grey Havens, but of course, he was never shown using the ring to escape the orcs, as he did in the books.
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 08:34 AM       
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Originally Posted by Perndog
This guy says he didn't read the book. But he knows about Tom Bombadil. What gives?
erm there's 3 books.. so I read the first two and not the last? possibly.

So I want someone to explain to me..
What IS the ring for anyways? One of my friends says its so Sauron can get back into his body ( the body being that of the Nasghul Leader). Is that right?
But I never got WHY he made the ring in the first place. And how it can increase his power somehow. But he doesn't make another. Or dies without it.
I didn't get that fully.
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 09:45 AM       
In the book, neither Merry nor Pippin dies, Aragorn is not mortally wounded, and he eventually marries Arwen. Faramir ends up hooking up with Eowyn. Sam never goes to the Gray Havens. He stays in the Shire with his wife. I think it's time to crack those books again.

Pippin's song overlayed with Faramir's hopeless charge was fucking amazing.
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 10:36 AM       
Hm. I must've been thinking of the moment when Pippin drags Merry out from under the body, and he looks almost dead. And maybe I got Faramir's near-deathness confused with Aragorn.

Are you certain about Sam, though? I thought, because he briefly wore the ring after the orcs approached the unconscious Frodo, he had to eventually go to the Grey Havens too, many years after Frodo left. Or, maybe I'm confusing that with Frodo not leaving on those ships till a few years after he returned.

I made a point of it not to re-read each of the books until directly after I saw the movie... I didn't want to pick up on all the minor (and major) differences. Well, guess I'll pick up Return of the King again for Christmas.
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  #57  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 01:24 PM       
Poxpower, I've only read the books twice in my life, I'm by no means an expert. However they are fresh in my memory because I read them for the second time about a year ago.

FS, Carni is right about everything that's in the book. Merry was very badly wounded after the fight with the Witch King, and he was in the Houses of the Healing along with Eowyn and Faramir. It was thought that he MIGHT die for a while but he managed to pull through. That's probably what you're thinking of. Aragorn was never really hurt at all that I can remember.

And Sam never did go off to the Grey Havens, in fact the last two pages or so from the book are exactly what you see on screen down to the very last line uttered.

There MAY be a mention of Sam eventually going to the Grey Havens in the appendices or the timeline, but I don't think so, and even if there is, it's not part of the story proper.

As it stands right now I cannot say this is the best movie I've ever seen, or even definitely the best of the trilogy, it just feels incomplete to me at the moment (though I DID fucking LOVE it). I fully expect when I view the Extended version and see so many of the sequences I looked forward to reinserted into the film, it may very well become my favorite. I feel it's unfair for me to make comparisons based solely on the theatrical release though since I view the Extended versions as the definititive ones.
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  #58  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 01:35 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poxpower
So I want someone to explain to me..
What IS the ring for anyways? One of my friends says its so Sauron can get back into his body ( the body being that of the Nasghul Leader). Is that right?
But I never got WHY he made the ring in the first place. And how it can increase his power somehow. But he doesn't make another. Or dies without it.
I didn't get that fully.
I've never read the Silmarillion, nor do I particularly want to, as long chronicles of history and who begat who do not interest me. I want the meat and potatos, someone else can pour over all the insignificant details.

However, I've talked to friends who have read nearly EVERYTHING so this is partial speculation on my part and partial remembering what they've told me.

Initially Sauron created the ring to have dominion over all the other rings he created, so that he could basically enslave the other races to his will. But he's been around for eons now, and I figure that the only thing tying him to the world is the One Ring that he stored a good portion of his power in long long ago. He is weak without it because he cannot tap into that stored power, and when it gets destroyed, he's fucked, because there's nothing to anchor him to the world anymore. As when Bilbo gave up the ring, all those years caught up with him, I believe that when the ring was destroyed, all those ages caught up with Sauron and he no longer had anything keeping him around past his expiration date.

If memory serves, the Nazgul leader was a powerful king of men from up in the North from a place called Angmar. He's a totally different dude from Sauron, so no, Sauron would not take over his body. I don't recall the books ever making any mention of Sauron taking a physical form, except for the reference to Gandalf fighting the Necromancer (which was during The Hobbit, I think?).

Hopefully that will help, and I'm sure Willie or Carnivore will come in and correct me where I was wrong or talking completely out of my ass.
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  #59  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 01:35 PM       
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Originally Posted by Protoclown
I fully expect when I view the Extended version and see so many of the sequences I looked forward to reinserted into the film, it may very well become my favorite.
I hope they include the cabaret scene in which Frodo and Sam dress as women and try to charm their way out of Cirith Ungol with a winning combination of toe-tapping song-and-dance numbers.
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  #60  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 03:57 PM       
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Originally Posted by Poxpower
What IS the ring for anyways? One of my friends says its so Sauron can get back into his body ( the body being that of the Nasghul Leader).
There is a discrepancy between Sauron's physical state in the books and in the movies.

In the films, he is represented as more of a malevolent spirit--the all-seeing eye who would only be complete again when the Ring--where most of his old power is concentrated--is returned to him. In the books, however, there is no question that he has taken physical form again (albeit a weak form). At one point it is mentioned that there are only 9 fingers on the Black Hand, but it is enough to hold the Ring.
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  #61  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 04:04 PM       
YES I AM A GIANT NERD OK

Sauron's physical form was destroyed fighting Elendil in the battle that created the Dead Marshes, but his spirit did not perish, because he put so much of himself into the making of the Ring.

-willie
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  #62  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 04:09 PM       
And isn't Sauron a servant of Morgoth or something like that?
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  #63  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 04:40 PM       
Can someone who read the books answer this for me:

When they leave on the ship (at the end), where exactly do they go? I thought it was some death symbolism, but I think it's some elven paradise or something...
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  #64  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 04:54 PM       
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Originally Posted by O71394658
Can someone who read the books answer this for me:

When they leave on the ship (at the end), where exactly do they go? I thought it was some death symbolism, but I think it's some elven paradise or something...
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  #65  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 05:16 PM       
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And isn't Sauron a servant of Morgoth or something like that?
Sauron was a disciple of Melkor (AKA Morgoth), the first great Dark Lord. When Melkor/Morgoth was overthrown, Sauron took up his master's work.
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When they leave on the ship (at the end), where exactly do they go? I thought it was some death symbolism, but I think it's some elven paradise or something...
They sailed for Valinor, which is the land of the Valar (high-ranking spirits), only kept open to elves and certain distinguished individuals. It should be mentioned that mortal beings who go to Valinor remain mortal and do not achieve immortality.

Here's a fantastic site with everything you ever wanted to know about the Arda mythos:
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda
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  #66  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 10:01 PM       
Oh alright, so the right is kinda like the fresh seal on Sauron's body and when you take it away from him, time gets him and he dies in a "meteors crashes on earth" kinda way.
Well good for him.

I still wish they had explained what the other rings of power actually did. Does anyone know about that? Do they have magical powers (beneficial) as well, or are they just too damned pretty for future slaves to not accept them?
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  #67  
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Old Dec 19th, 2003, 10:26 PM       
I'm pretty sure at least one of the elven rings had some kind of fire power or something. At least it was the ring of fire, and I think that's the one Gandalf had. But I could be wrong.
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Old Dec 20th, 2003, 12:21 AM       
I just came back from the movie. I would normally say "wow". But the word wow dosn't do it justice. So I have come up with a new word. reallyreallyreallyreallywow. Jesus Christ that movie was...Just...JESUS CHRIST.
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Old Dec 20th, 2003, 02:11 AM       
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I'm pretty sure at least one of the elven rings had some kind of fire power or something. At least it was the ring of fire, and I think that's the one Gandalf had. But I could be wrong.
The three rings forged solely by the elves were Narya (fire), Nenya (water), and Vilya (air), and they had some measure of power over their respective elements. Gandalf was given Narya, Galadriel held Nenya, and Elrond held Vilya.

The other sixteen were created by elven smiths under the tutelage of Sauron (disguised as Annatar, the "Lord of Gifts"). After he created his One Ring, he besieged those very smiths, stole the sixteen, and gave nine to men and seven to dwarves. The human kings, of course, were enslaved by Sauron, but the dwarves managed to resist his magic.
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Old Dec 20th, 2003, 03:58 AM       
you can see Narya on Gandalf's hand in the "farewell" scene :hat

-willie
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  #71  
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Old Dec 20th, 2003, 12:51 PM       
So is "three rings for the elven kings" not right then? There was a nondescript third elf standing by Elrond and Galadriel in the end.

I think it was mentioned in the books once or twice that several of the rings had gotten lost or were thought destroyed, too.
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Old Dec 20th, 2003, 01:46 PM       
Yeah, that was Galadriel's husband Celeborn. He was in Fellowship when they were in Lothlorien. But he's obviously Galadriel's BITCH so he doesn't talk much.

I can't blame him, I would soooo be Galadriel's bitch too.
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  #73  
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Old Dec 20th, 2003, 05:07 PM       
I was masturbating throughout the entire movie.

The undead army ruled, and so did Eowyn.
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  #74  
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Old Dec 20th, 2003, 05:27 PM       
I forget that guys name that tried to burn his son alive. (I know proto would know) But anyway. I'd like to go the way he did. Falling off of a cliff...ON FIRE . That stole the spotlight.
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  #75  
Big Papa Goat Big Papa Goat is offline
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Old Dec 20th, 2003, 11:18 PM       
It was good, but some the characterization was weak, and I thought the part with Pippin singing and Faramir charging was kind of lame :/.
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