Features

VinceZeb · #1

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=35544

Wednesday, November 12, 2003
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BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS
NYC district denies
birth of Jesus?
Nativity scene barred as not 'historically accurate representation of an event'

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Posted: November 12, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
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© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
In a dispute over display of holiday symbols, New York City schools are allowing Jewish menorahs and Islamic crescents but barring Christian nativity scenes, alleging the depiction of the birth of Christ does not represent a historical event.

In pleadings with a federal court in defense of the ban, New York City lawyers asserted the "suggestion that a crèche is a historically accurate representation of an event with secular significance is wholly disingenuous."

The Jewish and Islamic symbols are allowed, the district says, because they have a secular dimension, but the Christian symbols are "purely religious."

Robert J. Muise, who will challenge the school policy at a federal court hearing tomorrow in Brooklyn, told WorldNetDaily be believes most Americans don't see it that way.

"The birth of Jesus is a historical event which serves as the basis for celebration of Christmas," Muise stated. "It's of importance for both Christians and non-Christians."

Muise's Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center filed a motion to temporarily restrain the city from enforcing its ban on nativity scenes. The center asserts New York's policy "promotes the Jewish and Islamic faiths while conveying the impermissible message of disapproval of Christianity in violation of the U.S. Constitution."

The Michigan group says one public-school principal issued a memo encouraging teachers to bring to school "religious symbols" that represent the Islamic and Jewish religions, but made no mention of Christianity.

Jewish menorahs adorned the halls of the school as part of the authorized displays, the More Center said, but students were not allowed to make and similarly display nativity scenes

A parent who wrote a letter of complaint to her son's teacher received a copy of the school's "Holiday Displays" policy in response.

Kate Ahlers, communications director for New York City's law department, says schools can use things that are secular like menorahs, stars and snowflakes, but the crèche is considered religious.

"There is a separation of church and state that is part of the Constitution," she claimed. "It's a clear belief that people try to follow in schools and public office, and schools are saying they adhere to that belief."

The point of schools, she added, "is not to debate religion; the point of schools is to teach children."

The federal civil-rights lawsuit was filed on behalf of Andrea Skoros and her two elementary-school children against the city of New York and several school officials.

Skoros and her children are devout Roman Catholics.

"Can Christianity be erased from a public school?" Muse asked in a statement. "Can 'Christ' be removed from Christmas? We will soon find out."

Emu · #2

Prove that he existed, then I'll comment.

Zhukov · #3

What a stupid thing to say. You are just adding to the lunacy I feel seeping from that article.

VinceZeb · #4

Jesus divinity is what is in question now a days, His existance is pretty much been just as proven as Plato's or Aristotle's.

mburbank · #5

A.) You really need to look at some other sources on this. That article is terrible.
B.) IF that article turned out to be both %100 percent accurate AND not selectively including just the most ridiculous aspects of this case, than of course it's outrageous, biggoted and just plain wrong.
C.) I am personally convinced of the existance of a historical Jesus.
D.) The claim that there is more evidence for the existanece of jesus than Plato or Aristotle is ridiculous beyond belief. There are very few extrabiblical contemporary references to Jesus (though more than enough to indicate his existence). There are multiiple references to both Plato and aristotle. Are you maybe thinking of Homer?
E.) Why do you have such a chip on your shoulder about the existance of Jesus? To me, it makes your faith seem week.

Anonymous · #6

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

"Can 'Christ' be removed from Christmas? We will soon find out."

This is where someone points out the commercialization of Christmas.

Perndog · #7

Christmas is just about commercialism and all the consumer drones running to department stores anyway.

On the real issue, people need to get their heads out of their asses and allow free displays of religion in schools. Your child is not going to convert to or from Christianity because he saw a nativity scene or a menorah at school, or even if his favorite teacher talks about Jesus in class. As long as the school doesn't officially endorse a religion, let people do what the fuck they want. Damn liberal whiners.

And I'm more inclined to believe that the stories about Jesus (those that weren't made up by the writers) referred to a bunch of different prophets who someone decided to stick together with one name as a cultural icon.

I dare you, Vince. PROVE me wrong, and don't cite the Bible while you're at it, because that's exactly what I'm calling into question.

kahljorn · #8

I think the best historical evidence of him is when he traveled to the East and taught/Learned. He was reverred as a spiritual leader of sorts there as well. He was Called ISA, or saint ISA.

Also, I found a site that claims to know the birthdate of Jesus based on the numerical PI.

Brandon · #9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perndog

And I'm more inclined to believe that the stories about Jesus (those that weren't made up by the writers) referred to a bunch of different prophets who someone decided to stick together with one name as a cultural icon.

Consider also the odd "coincidences" Jesus' history has to that of messianic legends of other ancient cultures.

kellychaos · #10

Quote:

The point of schools, she added, "is not to debate religion; the point of schools is to teach children."

I don't see why a comparitive religion course couldn't be taught at a middle school level. I think it would afford them to examine themselves and make their own decisions on their religious direction more clearly. I mean that Christianity seems to be the proverbial Pavlov's Dog of the public school system. Shove it down the kid's throat often enough and some of them will start to salivate after a while.

The_Rorschach · #11

That's a misuse of the Pavlov's dogs illustration.

The dogs in question learned to as sociate two seperate things by inference, i.e. food being served and the sound of a small bell being struck. I understand your point Kelly, just pointing out something someone else will doubtlessly mention later if I don't

I agree with you kelly, and It is also worth mentioning that, prior to the early sixties, prayer in public schools was fairly common, but wasn't considered an important variable when figured in to people's conversation to Christianity. Anyone weak willed enough to become a Christian by exposure alone is equally likely to become a mass murderer based upon seeing people killed on the tele all the time.

EDIT:

And I'm more inclined to believe that the stories about Jesus (those that weren't made up by the writers) referred to a bunch of different prophets who someone decided to stick together with one name as a cultural icon.

I dare you, Vince. PROVE me wrong, and don't cite the Bible while you're at it, because that's exactly what I'm calling into question.

-=-=-=-=-=- Read Josephus' history of the Roman Empire in Judea