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  #51  
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Old Mar 9th, 2003, 06:36 PM       
Aus 3:16
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  #52  
mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2003, 07:10 PM       
Naldo, I assure you I'll look into it and will strt a brand new thread in response. But just looking aat your sources, I have an initial bone to pick.

Throw out the Romans reference. These are letters written well after the life of Jesus. I know you have bead on what's divinely inspired and what isn't, but I'm not going to make any claims regarding what I site and am already allowing Gospels despite the fact that they too were almost certianly written way after Jesus. Plus, I'll give you another freeby by not including any of the Gospels which got cut from the New Testament several hundred years after the life of Jesus.

It's the fairly striking that with one exception, all your references come from John. Hmmmm. What do we make of this? My guess is you don't even know the overall differences between the Gospels. I'll tell you what, though. They're pretty big, and they're prettty important.
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old Mar 9th, 2003, 08:41 PM       
Well, the answer to that is easy.

I just flipped to Jn. and started looking.

As long as those references from Rom. do not contradict the words of Christ....which they don't....I really don't think you point holds much weight.

Chist himself said that HE is the only way to the Father in heaven.

My point is simply, that if you are going to call yourself a CHRISTian you should believe GOD's inspired word when it tells you that CHRIST is the only way to heaven.

I really don't see how anyone could disagree......unless you just wanted to disagree with Raygun for the sake of disagreeing with Raygun.
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Old Mar 10th, 2003, 09:08 AM       
third-person self-references are so gay. get over yourself, please.
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Old Mar 10th, 2003, 10:46 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
I agree 100%. I dealt with those people all of my life.
... and apparently learned some of the tricks of the trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
However, the vast majority of these people as individuals are not snobs, elitist or anything of the sort.
Most people I know who go treat it like a social event where they get to dress up, look down their noses at the rest of the congregation and then do those same things that they talk about others doing ... as if one day a week is going to absolve them for the other six.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
Many people like you are responsible for blaming people who are not.
... and what's your term for the condescending and hypocritical. Maybe I need to borrow your thesaurus. I'm just concerned with basically being a good human being. Ralph Waldo Emerson says it's in all of us to do so on our own. Sorry if I prefer his word over your misconstrued interpretations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
That's what you are supposed to do. You shouldn't rely on what another man or woman has to say. Focus on GOD's inspired word.
Meahwhile, your religious leader (whoever that is) is changing your mental diaper every week ... it needs it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun
So literal as what?
So literal as the diarhea of quotes you provide daily.
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Old Mar 10th, 2003, 11:39 AM       
Could somebody please spell "possibilities" correctly? I'm assuming that if you have all the answers in regards to maintaining world peace, you must at least have a light grasp on simple written communications.
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Old Mar 10th, 2003, 02:24 PM       
Hink, Blow me.


Naldo, your answer isn't 'easy' it's 'simple'.

"Christ himself said that HE is the only way to the Father in heaven. "
Fine, then your comfortable throwing out Romans as HE doesn't say anything in it.

I suspect, Naldo that as opposed to 'flipping' to anything, you used the biblical sissie's 'find a topic' chart thrown in at the front of many of your finer Full Text Bibles with Cliff Notes style educumation pointers. Or maybe you have one of those ever so cute color coded texts, where the Word O God is in RED so you don't have to be troubled by reading the context.

Jesus said Lots of things, many of them way more frequently than anything he said about salvation. If the Bulk of what JC was about was simply how NOT to go to hell, he'd have had all the lasting religous appeal of a fall out shelter.

But don't get your John th Baptist Underoos in a twist. I intend to give this matter some actual thought. And believe me Ronnie, I'd be most Happy if you said something I COULD agree with.
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old Mar 10th, 2003, 04:28 PM       
Whatever,

I'm waiting for a reponse to GOD's word.
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Carnivore Carnivore is offline
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Old Mar 10th, 2003, 06:56 PM       
I love how he acts as if he said something prophetic and unequivocal.

Guess what, shitbrick! Every passage you quoted is open to interpretation!
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Old Mar 10th, 2003, 07:06 PM       
Jesus condoned torture? Repression of free speech and due process? "Total Information Awareness"? Good thing I'm not a Christian!!!!!!!
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 11th, 2003, 11:21 AM       
Nadlo. What is this the Jenny Jones Show? How can you use 'Whatever' and still look at yourself in te mirror when you shave?

Again, you need to wait, as I intend to actually think before opening my chow hole.
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Mar 12th, 2003, 02:53 PM       
Well, just to throw a couple pennies. Paul, pre-name change, did meet Christ, and was viewed by the Chruch at large as an authority on doctrine. . .So I believe Romans has some validity.

However, if you REALLY want to quibble. Most non-conservative (biblically not politically) oriented theologians believe that the book of John was written by multiple authors in the name of John. The synoptic gospels (Mark, Matthew and Luke) are treated as a group, because they agree closely. The Gospel of John is treated separately, as are the writings of St. Paul, because of their discussion of the nature of Jesus and the criteria for salvation, as opposed to the life and times of the Man himself.
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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Mar 12th, 2003, 03:06 PM       
Which is why almost all his references came from John, not due to any 'flipping'.

But this 'argument' is really a game, since Ronnie starts from the proposal that the New Testament was written by GOD with the authors playing a part somewhere between scribes and dictaphones. And GOD is by deffinition INFALLIBLE.

I'll tell you what, though, even accepting that (AND I DON'T) you can make hell of an argument for what Jesus AND the God who inspired the books that went into the bible ascribed to salvation as compared to everything else Jesus taught. It's a hallmark of Naldoanity to focus obsessively on how you personally can avoid damnation and win valuable God time as opposed to Jesus' teaching on how to treat your fellow man, especially your enemies.
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The_Rorschach The_Rorschach is offline
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Old Mar 12th, 2003, 03:14 PM       
Well, as far as strict requirements go, if I remember correctly for the gentiles there were only four. I wish I had my Bible on me, my memory is so fucking terrible, but they were something like, to abstain from fornicating, not to eat meat consecrated in the names of false gods and. . .Thats where I lose track.

But yeah, you have a valid point. Christ's teachings had less to do on hell and damnation, or avoiding it, and more on explaining the message of the Kingdom on Heaven and how one who follows Him should act with compassion.

Although, depending upon how deeply you read the scriptures, there is a wealth of information to be found. I have a neat little theory on time based on the four gospels. Need to get my bible and notes to share though.

While I believe that Bible was written under the inspiration of God, and therefore His word, I believe the true words of God within are largely symbolic. For the most part, when God spoke to others, He spoke allegorically (I hope I'm not misusing this word). Like with Christ's Sermons on the Mount, he used parables.
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