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Miss Modular Miss Modular is offline
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Old Jun 15th, 2005, 10:00 PM        "To Alter or Abolish..."
Almost four years ago (has it really been that long?), about a month and a half before the terrorist attacks, I created a thread called "The Future of our Country". In that thread, I questioned how much of a lifespan our country has left.

I'm a little older and a little wiser. Lately, however, the current left-right polarization has made me sick. Pundits and polititians hurling insults at one another. Corruption at all levels of government, in both of the major parties.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence:

Quote:
"We hold these Truths to be self-evident,that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness-That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government . . .
These days, I'm beginning to really think that the only way to really change things is to start over. I believe as it is, we have outgrown our representative democracy. I'm talking about either instituting a parliamentary system, or perhaps seeing as much of ideology is separated by geography, splitting the country apart. While I realize there's no one best solution, it might be better than what we're doing now.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Jun 15th, 2005, 10:18 PM       
But isn't this one of those heady topics though, where everyone agrees that change is necessary and then nobody agrees on how? You yourself mentioned how polarized the nation is (as a side note, there are some who argue that to be nonsense, but whatever).

What specifically do you believe to be wrong? You know the saying, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, well one man's so-called corruption is another man's farm subsidy. Is it the media? is it apathy? is it one political party more so than the other?

It's like holding a discussion (no offense to any present company) with an Anarchist. They tend to be very well versed in what they perceive to be wrong with society, but then offer the weakest and lamest alternatives.

If you want change, what's the first step?
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Miss Modular Miss Modular is offline
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Old Jun 15th, 2005, 11:20 PM       
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Originally Posted by KevinTheOmnivore
But isn't this one of those heady topics though, where everyone agrees that change is necessary and then nobody agrees on how? You yourself mentioned how polarized the nation is (as a side note, there are some who argue that to be nonsense, but whatever).

What specifically do you believe to be wrong? You know the saying, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, well one man's so-called corruption is another man's farm subsidy. Is it the media? is it apathy? is it one political party more so than the other?

It's like holding a discussion (no offense to any present company) with an Anarchist. They tend to be very well versed in what they perceive to be wrong with society, but then offer the weakest and lamest alternatives.

If you want change, what's the first step?
Honestly, I kind of wanted to be a little open ended. I'm curious to hear what other people have to say about this issue. Right now, I'm just interested in surveying how people think and feel about an issue like this.

I'll be honest and say that I don't know what the first step is. What I do know is is that this is the sort of change that could take years, even decades to effectively implement. I admit that I'm only I'm only at a hypothesis right now, and I need to investigate a little more.

As for what I believe is wrong, It's a couple of things. I began looking into this idea after watching Jon Stewart's appearance on Crossfire last fall. People have been so far polarized in both directions that sometimes we'll tune the other side out when someone on that side makes a good point. I realize that pundits aren't the best representatives of political thought, but people do read them and sometimes take them too seriously.

Finally, I meant to point this out in my first post. There's seriously talk of running Hillary Clinton running in '08. If the only candidate the Democrats can effectively run against a Republican is Hillary Clinton, forget about the Democrats being screwed. Our whole democracy is screwed! It's not so much the kind of polititian Hillary is. It's a sad time in Politics when the best thing you can do with following another Bush is another Clinton. It seems like a bought and sold monarchy.
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davinxtk davinxtk is offline
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Old Jun 16th, 2005, 02:53 AM       
Run a fucking candidate who wants to legalize pot.

I'd wager there are more stoners in this country than Catholics
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GAsux GAsux is offline
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Old Jun 16th, 2005, 02:59 AM        Here's my theory....
My theory is that things are not any worse than they've ever been, in relative terms. Hear me out here before telling me I'm an idiot. I would suggest that throughout the history of this nation there have and always will be doomsday types on both sides.

In fact, it was evident on this board. I know it's a lot of letting off steam and blowhard-ization sometimes but seriously, it doesn't take a lot of work to go back and find all the "the end of the world is surely coming now" threads.

This is not a new concept. In the early 80s we were all going to die in a nuclear war. Gas was in short supply and the nation teetered on the brink of disaster. In the late 60s Vietnam threatening to tear the nation apart and race relations boiled over into violence all over the country.

In the 40s the Germans and Japanese were going to kill us all. In the 20s dust and economic ruin were our downfall. It goes on and on and I'm sure you get the point.

It is my opinion that while things seem dire in some circumstances (terrorism, social gaps, economic inequality, etc) each year there is consistent advancement in other areas. Some things perpetually improve, some things inevitably cause chaos.

Perhaps I subscribe to the "if it's not one thing, it's another" theory. There will always be something looming on the horizon. I dont suppose there is an opposite of doomsday conspiracies. There are no optomist conspirators. But regardless, I don't believe we're any closer to destruction now than we have been at any other time in history.

The only thing that changes is the type of destruction that treatens.
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davinxtk davinxtk is offline
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Old Jun 16th, 2005, 03:26 AM       
Do the evolution.
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(1:02:34 AM): and i think i may have gone a little too far and let her know that i actually do hate her, on some level, just because she's female
(1:03:33 AM): and now she's being all kinds of sensitive about it
(1:03:53 AM): i hate women
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