Gun control question

[Vibecrewangel]

Does anyone else think that the issue of gun control is based more on where you live and what experiences you've had with them as opposed to whether you are a conservative or a liberal?

I mean, if you live in a place where most of the victims of shootings are road signs and soda cans wouldn't you be less likely to want stricter gun control than say someone who lives in an area where they get to dodge bullets on a playgrond or in front of the supermarket?

[VinceZeb]

I think it has to do with that, yes, but also with common sense vs emotion.

I hate gun control laws. They were first formed to be racist, they still ARE racists, and they were used by Mao, Stalin, and Pol Pot to prevent their Great leap foward, their revolutions, and their re-education camps.

The most important right we had over people was our rights to carry weapons to protect ourselves.

http://www.blackmanwithagun.com/ - AWESOME site. Very informative, and also has links to the facts he used.

[Vibecrewangel]

I know the history......many of our nations laws have some (or a lot of) racist roots. It is a sad but true fact. Too bad so many people want to either deny or cling to the past. Accept that it happend and move forward.

Tell me how they are still racist. I admit this is a subject I know little about.

[VinceZeb]

Ok. For right now I have to just go by what I remember and my opinion, because I don't have the time to grab all the facts. I will later, possibly tonight or tommorow.

The ability to carrry a gun instills a "fear factor(y, ha ha)" among criminals becuase they will not know who carries a weapon. If women were properly trained in the use and concealment of a small personal pistol, they would be less likely to be victims of rape, kidnapping, and murder, for two reasons.

1) Because criminals are for the most part worthless spineless sacks of shit, so they attack who they think is not armed and is weak, which is mostly women (sorry for being sexist, but its fact) amd since there is not a universal right-to-carry law, criminals can attack without reistance, since the first things they teach you rape prevention is to use your keys or lay there and take it, which is totally retarded. Id like to punch the person who made that up.

2) The idea that people are carrying weapons will make criminals think twice before they attack. I mean, if you knew people were carrying guns, you wouldn't screw with them.

The laws are still racist in my opinion because they make people suffer in poor inner-city neighboorhoods due to poor police coverage and the massive amounts of crime. If that hard-working black woman trying to get her kids through school can carry a weapon, she has less of a fear of being a victim or robbery or rape by some platnum-toofed knuckle dragging gang-banging thug.

[Ronnie Raygun]

O.K.

Let me get this straight.

First the libs here at I-Mockery say they don't agree with what the first amendment says.......and now the 2nd is under attack as well?

Hell, lets throw out the Bill of Rights.

[VinceZeb]

Vibecrew didnt say that. He is just asking a question.

[Vibecrewangel]

Fair enough for an opinion.

However, I can assure you that many violent criminals don't give hoot if someone is carrying a gun. Most of them have them too and as a violent criminal, they are more likely to use it.

The key thing works if you already know how to defend yourself. If you think the flailing wildly with your keys will help you are wrong.

The inner city thing is a bit harder. I used to be part of a gang so I understand the mentality. There is a distinct lack of fear of anyone else having a gun. They understand the repercussions of shooting someone in a way vastly different than anything most people can understand. They don't fear jail. They don't fear the police. They don't fear another person with a gun. Shooting someone and being shot is a way of life.
In that situation the more guns out there the worse the violence will become. I've seen it happen.

[Ronnie Raygun]

I don't know Vince........I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Vibecrewangel]

I'm a girl damn it!

[Vibecrewangel]

Ronnie,
I'm not attacking it, I'm asking about it. There is a difference if you come down off your high horse for a second take a breath and be a tad bit reasonable.

BTW - I'm not a liberal. I'm also not a conservative. I've been called a moderate or a centrist. I guess that sums it up fairly well.

[VinceZeb]

Then you are a woman.

Well, if more people are armed, then gangs cant control. And I dont mean that you give former felons weapons, you check for honest citizens.

I'm going to use a really off base example, but it has a point: The movie Death Wish 3. The gang runs the neighboorhood, then Kersey comes in. Uses a gun to stop the people, and then the citizens use their guns to shoot up and stop criminals. Thus, the criminals stop because they know they will fight back.

I know that is totally unrealistic, but if someone knows I am packing, they will be less likely to harm me. Now, if they try to harm me and a couple of their friends end up with ventalition shafts in their skulls, then they will change their mind, hopefully.

[Vibecrewangel]

And I dont mean that you give former felons weapons, you check for honest citizens.

This is where I am on the issue too.
I love to shoot. I suck......
But I love it.


Unfortunatley, to be realistic, sometimes honest citizens do bad things when they feel they have power. And too many people see the gun as the power.

[Vibecrewangel]

And don't call me a woman too loudly. I don't want Chojin to come in here and remind me how old and wrinkly I am getting.

Hi Chojin! :kiss :kiss

[Protoclown]

Hi, Ronnie! I'm a liberal on I-Mockery and I support the first Ammendment. I'm curious to know where anyone on here has said otherwise. Could you quote me some examples?

I've got no problem with the idea of people owning guns. Hell, my dad is a proud member of the NRA and must have at least a dozen handguns in his collection.

He's invited me to the firing range with him to go shooting ever since I was fourteen, but I was never interested. While I find weapons interesting to an extent, I don't personally like them. I have no desire to ever fire a gun in my life.

Guns have never killed anyone on their own...in our country there's usually an idiot behind it pulling the trigger (not always mind you, but this is why it's such a problem in the US...too many idiots have guns). The biggest problem our country seems to have with the whole gun issue is the general prevalent attitudes over firearms that have changed drastically over the last fifty years or so...from the point where guys would settle a fight with their bare hands in the days when my dad was growing up to a time when a lot of guys would just shoot you if you looked at them funny.

But I ALSO have no problem with background checks and waiting periods either. If owning a gun is important to you, I don't personally see the big deal in waiting a little while to get it.

[Anonymous]

Because you need to hunt NOW.

Anything less would be racist. And Chinese.

[ItalianStereotype]

and nobody loves hunting like ******-hatin' chinks?

[AChimp]

What if the criminals have bigger guns?

[punkgrrrlie10]

I'm probably considered far left and I don't support banning guns. More regulation perhaps, but not a ban. And I lived in the ghetto. So I don't think it's where you live that influences the way you think. I think one of the major problems of this country is the people on the far right making everything illegal so we have this huge black market for everything. Guns is no different. It was easier growing up to go buy a gun or some coke than it was to get booze. Why, b/c of the black market around my area. I like to call it the "screw you factor".

Drugs - illegal, so the dealers basically don't care about selling it b/c they make huge profits off of it for being illegal. Plus since it is illegal, they don' t care who they sell it to.

Alcohol on the otehr hand - legal for adults, illegal for minors or to give to minors, so hey, I can enjoy it, but I'm not going to give it to you, I'd get in trouble.


I support legalization of drugs and prostitution. REgulate it, tax it. Let people kill themselves and stop legislating based on your morals.

Guns illegal just means all those criminals that already buy it off the black market are the only ones that have it.

[VinceZeb]

Making this quick: So you want to see regulations on something that is guarenteed by the 2nd amendment, but you don't want regulations on something that isn't guarenteed at all?

[The_Rorschach]

I think your argument is flawed. Its not a matter of how real the danger is. To my knowledge, nowhere is so bad that you must "dodge bullets on a playgrond or in front of the supermarket." If the neighbourhood were that bad, people would not frequent those places. The park would be abandoned, and the supermarket would close its doors, permanently. Fuck, in juniour high I was friends with a guy who ended up moving to Watts, which for those outside the west coast, is buried beneath LA's sprawl. I visited him a few times over the years, and the most lethal thing I ever saw was the tap water which seemed to be brown in colour.

To be precisely honest, it has to do with who believes they are in danger. The threat need only be real in their minds, especially as gun control laws are only a placebo solution. Criminals rarely buy their arms legally, because in doing so, they creat a trail of paperwork which could eventually lead to an arrect. Elsewise, how do you explain the strict gun laws in Maine (I hope I'm remembering the right state) as opposed to less strict laws of Texas?

Having said that, I am against a ban. It would not solve anything. I have no problem with a waiting period, or even having ballistic tests filed to link bullets to the barrel which fired them.

[punkgrrrlie10]

Making this quick: So you want to see regulations on something that is guarenteed by the 2nd amendment, but you don't want regulations on something that isn't guarenteed at all?

Perhaps you should read my post more closely. In fact, I'll provide some cliff's notes:

I support legalization of drugs and prostitution. REgulate it, tax it.

Everything that has the possibility of being misused should be regulated. Even constitutional rights have limitations.

Prime example: freedom of speech: still illegal to yell fire in a crowded theater. And just to let you know from a legal standpoint..the 2nd amendment is one of the few that was never incorporated by the 14th amendment, so it isn't "Guaranteed" to the states.

[The_Rorschach]

" Even constitutional rights have limitations."

I happen to see alot of sense in most of your arguments, though often we're standing on opposite sides of any given issue, but I feel the need to expound on this briefly.

There are no limits on rights as such, there are regulations to ensure that those rights are not abused. A right is not something one is given by the law, it is something that the law cannot take away -This disctinction, I believe, is fundamentally important in understanding a constitutional republic such as ours. However, if rights were to be used in such a way as to undermine their intended purpose (a purpose I'm quite confident I don't need to explain to you), it would create a precident by which rights could then be undermined, restricted or abolished.

[punkgrrrlie10]

True dat.

But a regulation in practical application is going to entail limitation.

[The_Rorschach]

Can't argue with that, I'd only be quibbling then.

[Vibecrewangel]

Ror,

Having been through (not participated in) more than a few drive bys and seen a multitude more in both SF and Oakland, I can assure you it happens a lot more than most people realize. Maybe not as much now as 10 or 15 years ago, but......
The playgrounds get closed for a bit and then reopend. Schools have a day off and then back to SOP once cleared by the authorities, supermarkets board up their windows and continue with business once they are allowed to reopen.


Punk,

I am with you on the prostitution and drug issue as well. I despise the fact that so many laws are based on morality.

As for the gun issue, I was looking for opinions on the scenario. I believe Zeb said that it is based on emotion and that what sort of what I was looking for. If you have had a negative experience with something your emotions are often times what fuels your opinion on it. I was wondering if anyone else thought that some of the people who are looking for a ban or harsher controls may be good people who have seen too many bad things.

I find it interesting that it so few people took my question at face value and simply assumed I wanted stricter gun control. Or that I was a liberal. People read too much into things.