Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Marc Summers Marc Summers is offline
Senior Member
Marc Summers's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The OC
Marc Summers is probably a spambot
Old Jun 23rd, 2005, 03:38 PM        House proposes ban on flag burning
Newsview: GOP Using Flag-Burning Issue By RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer
1 hour, 52 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Symbols are everything in politics. They can get you elected — or defeated. That's why Democrats fear getting singed by a proposed flag-burning ban, forced into a vote that Republicans will cast as a test of patriotism.

ADVERTISEMENT

The GOP-led House voted 286-130 on a measure Wednesday that would give Congress authority to ban desecration of a U.S. flag. Its prospects aren't good in the Senate, but Republicans could still get what they want — an issue that divides or even conquers Democrats in the 2006 and 2008 elections.

Democratic Party leaders generally don't want to tamper with free-speech rights in the Constitution, but they were split on whether to bow to political pressure. After all, the flag means more than ever after the 2001 terrorist attacks, and Republicans are not shy about evoking Sept. 11 in political fights.

They did it in the 2002 congressional elections, gaining seats, and again in 2004, when terrorism remained the defining issue of congressional races and President Bush's re-election bid. Republicans returned to Sept. 11 in the flag-burning debate.

"Ask the men and women at Walter Reed or Bethesda. Ask the police and fire(fighters) that stood on top of the Trade Center," said Rep. Randy (Duke) Cunningham, R-Calif. "Ask them and they will tell you: 'Help pass this amendment.'"

Rep. Jerrold Nadler (news, bio, voting record), D-N.Y., whose district includes the site of the former World Trade Center, accused Republicans of exploiting the attacks.

"If the flag needs protection at all," he said, "it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents."

Still, some Democrats, mostly moderates, said the power of that symbol shouldn't be underestimated.

"I can't imagine when it gets down to it that any Democrat would vote against the ban," Democratic strategist Ray Strother said. "Something strange is happening in this country. More than ever, people seem to be looking for symbols. What does this flag amendment really mean? Doesn't matter; it's a symbol for something else. People, particularly the conservative movement, are trying to leave a trail of signs that have larger implications."

He pointed to the Georgia Senate race in 2002 when Sen. Max Cleland, who lost both legs and an arm in a grenade explosion in Vietnam, lost his re-election bid after Republicans ran ads with pictures of Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein that blamed him for thwarting Bush's plans for a Homeland Security Department. Strother said the ad was an assault on Cleland's patriotism, a sample of what Democrats can expect if they don't rush to the defense of the flag.

"Democrats ought not put themselves in a position of fighting symbolic fights that are meaningless," said Democratic strategist Chris Lehane of San Francisco. Instead, he urged Democrats to find wedge issues that can be used against Republicans, such as passing a congressional resolution demanding to know why bin Laden is still free.

But many Democrats say it's cowardly not to fight the ban, and are convinced they won't be punished by voters for doing so. "Voters simply don't believe Democrats are hostile to the American flag," Democratic strategist Jim Jordan said.

Still, he conceded the issue "makes Democrats' knees wobbly," and said some politicians are in a tough spot — "surrounded by staff and consultants and supporters who are probably more worried about this than they ought to be."

According to a 2004 poll by the Freedom Forum, the most recent available, 53 percent of Americans believed the Constitution should not be amended to make flag-burning illegal, while 45 percent supported a ban.

An informal survey by The Associated Press found 35 senators on record as opposing the amendment — one more than the number needed to defeat it if all 100 senators vote.

It will not be an easy vote, as evidenced by the carefully worded statement issued by New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton. "I support federal legislation that would outlaw flag desecration, much like laws that currently prohibit the burning of crosses, but I don't believe a constitutional amendment is the answer," she said, adopting a position similar to the one taken by her husband, former President Clinton, when he was in office.

Her aides said there is no contradiction in being against the flag-burning amendment and for a flag-burning law.

They say she believes a federal law would not trample First Amendment rights because, like laws against cross burnings, it would ban flag desecration that is deemed to pose a threat to others — and not acts of political expression that are protected by the First Amendment.

However, a law like the one proposed by the senator would likely be challenged in courts because Congress has no clear right to outlaw flag burning. That is why supporters of the ban want to add a one-line amendment to the Constitution that says, "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States."

Whether it passes now, later or never, the proposed amendment complicates the lives of chastened Democrats. Says Strother: "We now know the power of these symbols."

Link

Seriously, I mean WTF?!?
I hate how some people play the patriotism card to chip away at the freedoms we are supposedly trying to protect
Reply With Quote
  #2  
KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
Mocker
KevinTheOmnivore's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
KevinTheOmnivore is probably a spambot
Old Jun 23rd, 2005, 05:53 PM       
This is in preparation for the 2006 races. This will never (at least I think) pass the Senate, but every southern and/or suburban Republican in the House or aspiring FOR the House can use this in their respective districts as a litmus test against their opponent.

In my cynical opinion, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Jun 24th, 2005, 10:26 AM       
I think this is the best possible use of time our elected representatives could engage in. It's like a midnight basketball program for them, it keeps them out of trouble.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old Jun 24th, 2005, 12:02 PM       
I'm with Kevin on this one. Its like most abortion, pot legalizing, flat tax implementation or anything controversial.

Just a little polorization to get their constituents up in arms.
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Jun 24th, 2005, 01:15 PM       
The funny thing about deliberately pumping up your bases in a totally cynical fashion is that it tends to escelate until eventually one side or the other ends up with a violent uncontrollable mob, or the cynical pols who stirred the pot get voted out of office and repalced by a true believer who's completely in sync with the mob.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
Mocker
ziggytrix's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: i come from the water
ziggytrix is probably a spambot
Old Jun 24th, 2005, 01:24 PM       
I got dibs on leading the pot legalization mobs.
__________________
BOYCOTT SIGNATURES!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old Jun 24th, 2005, 02:09 PM       
Sure, go stir a bunch of pot heads into action.
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
Mocker
ziggytrix's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: i come from the water
ziggytrix is probably a spambot
Old Jun 24th, 2005, 02:20 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Blanco
Its like most abortion, pot legalizing, flat tax implementation or anything controversial.

Just a little polorization to get their constituents up in arms.
Quote:
Sure, go stir a bunch of pot heads into action.
You said it, not me.
__________________
BOYCOTT SIGNATURES!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
El Blanco El Blanco is offline
Mocker
El Blanco's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New York, NY
El Blanco is probably a spambot
Old Jun 24th, 2005, 02:27 PM       
If you want to get it done, you'll need two things:

Phish and Cheetohs. Lots and lots of Cheetohs
__________________
according to my mongoose, anyway.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:31 AM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.