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The One and Only... · #26

That's the worker not reading the contract.

El Blanco · #27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perndog

But I'm exploiting you because I've got your balls in a vise.

Thats not exploitation, thats just you falling into a fortunate circumstance. It would be exploitations if you forced him into horrible working conditions for a barely livable wage.

Perndog · #28

It's not a matter of the contract if the worker has no other recourse, and the working conditions don't matter, though the barely livable wage does (which is what I was referring to).

The point is, no unregulated system is perfect because these situations will happen.

El Blanco · #29

Quote:

It's not a matter of the contract if the worker has no other recourse

As long as the worker can leave the job, the employer has done nothing unethical or immoral( at least, on that level). The fact that the market is not very open for someone of the worker's skill is neither the employer's fault nor his problem.

Quote:

The point is, no unregulated system is perfect because these situations will happen.

OK I agree with you there.

The One and Only... · #30

There is no perfect regulated system, either.

Perndog · #31

El Blanco: I didn't say it was immoral and I agree the employer can go ahead and do what he wants. I'm not one for morals, myself; I just said it was exploitation.

OAO: Indeed there isn't. But as I hope I've demonstrated, there *is* such a thing as exploitation in this system, and if you want people to not be exploited you need more rules than most free-market advocates are prepared to accept.

The One and Only... · #32

That isn't exploitation. There is no such thing as exploitation within the voluntary contract, regardless of who gets the better deal. Exploitation would involve force, fraud, or theft, which are all barred in the free market that respects property rights.

mburbank · #33

Under your deffinition, when Walmart was paying third world women a wage they freely admitted left them malnourished (That was there deffence when accused of child labor, that the women only looked like children because they were malnourished) that Walmart was not exploiting them.

The employment is voluntary. The women were paid. Both parties benefitted.

Are there no prisons? No workhouses? Or let them die and decreae the surplus population.

Shouldn't you be in school?

The One and Only... · #34

Those women were not exploited, but you misread Wal-Marts argument entirely. Prior to working for them, they were malnourished, making them look like children. The argument is utter crap - the workers were undoubtably children.

But they were not exploited children.

No school today. Snow.

mburbank · #35

Of course they were children. And if you don't think that was exploitation that would have to do with your deffinition of the word. Be simpler. Ask yourself if it's okay.

Ask yourself if reaping hugely dispraportional profits from people who work hard for you and giving them just barely enough to get by because that's what the market will allow is a good way for human beings to treat children.

The only reason you might get to be on the high side of that curve is luck. Or do you think your geniusness and plucky go getter attitude would get you out of a sweat shop? Your deffinition of exploitation is defined by the fact you're sure you'll never face it. By the luck of your birth, you may not. But since you've never needed a job to eat you have no idea. Oh, wait, I forgot, you've met people who have jobs.

The One and Only... · #36

You're a fool. Of course it isn't right. But you need to compare the situation of those children to the alternatives open to them. They aren't pretty.

The market will eventually take care of that by it's very nature.

mburbank · #37

"I'm a fucking asshole!"
-OAO

Gosh, OAO. What with all your amazing mental slight of hand, I... I just don't know WHAT to think you think! Do you really believe that, ort is it just another one of those clever, provocative stances you take because, well, it just makes folks THINK!

I just feel so indebted to you right now. Seriously. You're just so darn cunning. If I ever felt like you use that whole 'lighten up' thing as a device to hide the fact that you're talking out of your but 99.9% of the time and tht you couldn't tell shit from cornpone if the factory label was phoenetic and someone read it to you, I'm sure I was wrong.

The One and Only... · #38

I never talk out of my butt. That would be painful, by any sensible measure.

But it's nice to know that you keep your head inside of your's.

Anywho, being an asshole does not mean that I don't care, or that I'm wrong. It just means that I enjoy pissing people off.

mburbank · #39

Oh, you're just kidding now. You've got me all flumoxed with your clever way of making a point. ou're only saying you enjoy pissing people off becuase that's what Vinth always said and you're being ironic.

I guess you're trying to say you hate the fact you always piss people off but you can't help it because you're a compulsive jerk stiring up hatred becuase at least it's someone paying attention to you.

Oh! The tears of a clown are the saddest tears of all.

The One and Only... · #40

Which is why I hate to watch you cry.

mburbank · #41

Now do you mean that or are you just being all sardonic and wordly in the way that only a pretend boy genius with amazing theoretical powers can be. I mean, you can't be to careful. It's just wheels within wheels for a complicated guy like you. Did I mention to you I met a guy with cancer the other day? I swear to God, it's exactly the same as if I survived cancer myself. Oh, lighten up. I don't really think that. There just comes a certain point when you have to look at a cancer patient and say "Man, thank GOD that could nver happen to a smart guy like me" and learn from it. And then eliminate him because of how bad for the economy he is. Oh, come on, as if I meant that! Lighten ujp. I met a guy who had cancer once. It was really awful for me.

Perndog · #42

I'm worried about you, Max. You enjoy this too much.

mburbank · #43

This? This is nothing. Some of the other stuff I enjoy you really ought to worry about.

BUT THAT'S NOBODIES DAMN BUSINESS!

Brandon · #44

Lemme guess, OAO:

You were one of those uptight, nerdy, fat kids who got picked on a lot in school, right? And then you thought that a perfect way to alleviate the crushing pain of it all was to intellectualize everything. Then you slipped into pathological narcissism to project an invincible, phony image and maybe even take revenge on those who slighted you.

You're even more like Vinth than people realize. You don't realize how utterly pathetic and absurd you sound because you've lost any real connection with the outside world.

I know you enjoy "pissing people off" because that, in a way, validates your idea that you're somebody who actually matters to people. But guess what? You're not infuriating, you're annoying. You're a pesky little fly. People here would actually have to consider you an equal to be pissed at you. Instead, you're just a perfect object of ridicule.

Loser.