Coca-Cola In India

[Bennett]

DAMMITT!!!

http://www.fanta.dk/showmovie.asp?mi...2-2DADD5188841

[GAsux]

Hey thanks, I'll try that.

There's no water in India, blah blah blah, they're all going to die, blah blah blah, god damn corporate America is the root of all evil blah blah blah......

You're right Jeanette, first I didn't read the article and second, my comments MUST be inane because I didn't agree with you.

Anyone who reads the article and DOESN'T feel the same way about it as you MUST be an idiot.

[AChimp]

Or they don't drink enough Coke.

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by GAsux

Hey thanks, I'll try that.

There's no water in India, blah blah blah, they're all going to die, blah blah blah, god damn corporate America is the root of all evil blah blah blah......

You're right Jeanette, first I didn't read the article and second, my comments MUST be inane because I didn't agree with you.

Anyone who reads the article and DOESN'T feel the same way about it as you MUST be an idiot.

You are not an idiot because you disagree, you are an idiot because you failed to realize that the factory only provides 134 permanent jobs, and that is not nearly enough to help the TEN THOUSAND laborers affected by the loss of the water. And if Coke left, I would be pleased, not upset that "the evil Coke corperation left and took jobs with it".
The Coke corperation has NOT provided a "substantial number of decent paying jobs", and the fact that you stated that plainly shows that you didn't read the article.

[AChimp]

Ten thousand coconut farmers, you mean.

[Zero Signal]

Pepsi should open a plant in Pakistan and then the cola wars can reall get going.

[GAsux]

Super. Thanks Jeanette for pointing out once again that I apparently didn't read the article based upon the fact that I disagree with it's "findings".

I'm quite sure that in addition to the 134 "permanent" jobs, a factory of that size employs a great many more people. Since the article doesn't say specifically how many TOTAL employees the factory houses, I guess I lose that argument huh? For the sake of argument, let's say its 500, although I'm still willing to bet it's more than that. Regardless, you're talking about 500 people who I will bet a case of Vanilla Coke make more in their salary in a month than they would in a year raising Indian Coconuts, which can't be all that great by the way.

Regardless, the economic tit for tat is not the heart of the argument is it? Because no matter how you slice it the Coca Cola Corporation is funneling a substantial amount of money into the Indian economy. We can argue about which specific Indains gain and lose, but it's pointless. Take that investment away and they ALL lose.

Anyway, isn't the real issue the water rights issue?

[Jeanette X]

If you were skeptical of the accuracy of the article you should have made that clear in the first place.
I'm off to go dredge up more information. Hopefully you won't decide to dismiss it all as innaccurate.

[Jeanette X]

I suppose you will be telling me that malaria and toxic waste are actually helping India next...
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0624-04.htm

Published on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 by OneWorld.net
Water-Guzzling Coke Plant Triggers Protests in Indian Town
by Kalyani

NEW DELHI - In view of an impending water crisis, environmental activists will hold a protest rally in north India next month to enlist support for ousting beverage multinationals like Coca Cola, accused of polluting and exploiting scarce groundwater.

A protest rally will be held in the north Indian city of Varanasi next month to highlight the role of Multi-National Corporations (MNCs) such as Coca-Cola in the looming water crisis, the organizers say. The protest is led by two local organizations, the Lok Samity and the Samajwadi Janparishad, members of the National Alliance of Peoples' Movements, an umbrella body of environmental and other social groups.

The activists are protesting against a Coca-Cola plant located in Mehdiganj, some 20 kilometers from Varanasi. They claim that the plant draws electricity from two diesel power generators, one of which consumes 360 liters of diesel per hour. Two tube-wells draw thousands of liters of underground water.

"The consumption of underground water by the company has led to a lowering of the underground water level from 15 to 40 feet," says Aflatoon, state general secretary of the Samajwadi Janparishad.

The activists, who claim the factory disgorges toxic industrial waste into neighboring fields and mango orchards, continue to urge the government to revoke the plant's industrial license.

"Many expelled workers of the plant who are with the movement, say the pollutant, Caustic Soda -- used for washing bottles, is causing the environmental damage," says Aflatoon.

According to Aflatoon, people living in villages around the plant often break out in rashes on drinking the water. Worse, the water has damaged wheat and paddy fields and the chick-pea crop in the region, he alleges.

There are other negative fallouts. As Aflatoon points out, "Polluted water stagnating in the fields has become a breeding ground for mosquitoes, causing Malaria." He goes so far as to allege that, "A village dog died after drinking the water."

According to Aflatoon, the destruction caused by the pollution from the factory has forced local farmers to organize themselves and demand ' Cola Bhagao, Gaon Bachao '(Oust Coca Cola, Save the Village).

Petitions have been sent to local officials as well as the President of India demanding the ouster of the MNC, which was earlier asked to leave the country by the Indian federal government in 1977.

Coca Cola withdrew from India after the Indian Government demanded it reveal the formula of the popular drink. It made a comeback in 1993 after New Delhi initiated a process of economic reforms. The American MNC is today one of the biggest foreign investors in India.

Last month too, environment activists held a protest march in Varanasi, following which the local administration ordered an inquiry into allegations of water pollution caused by the bottling plant.

The Varanasi protest comes in the wake of a similar movement in Kerala in south India last year. Last summer, villagers in the Palakaad district of Kerala demanded the closure of the Hindustan Coca-Cola Beverages Private Limited, a local unit of the MNC.

The villagers held that the MNC had dug up borewells for its water requirements, causing wells and ponds in the area to dry up. After a two-month-long protest, the local administration revoked the license of the Coca-Cola factory in the state.

Currently, the lowering of ground-level tables is causing severe water crises in different parts of the country. India's capital, Delhi, tops the list of water scarce cities, followed by Mumbai in the west and Bangalore and Hyderabad in south India.

The situation, experts warn, is likely to worsen in the coming years. According to Indian government figures, areas with access to water supply in Delhi will plummet from 81.5 percent to 26 per cent in the next 20 years.

© Copyright 2003 OneWorld
http://www.rediff.com/money/2003/jul/28coke.htm

Coke accused of supplying toxic fertiliser to farmers

George Iype in Kochi | July 28, 2003 15:35 IST


The Coca-Cola plant in Kerala's Palakkad district has run into serious trouble with a BBC investigative report saying that the sludge produced by the Coke factory contains dangerous toxic chemicals that are polluting the water supplies, the land and the food chain.

The report reveals that the sludge produced from the Coke plant at Plachimada village is supplied to local farmers who use it as fertiliser contains 'dangerous levels of the known carcinogen cadmium.'

BBC, which got the sludge samples from the Plachimada plant investigated at the University of Exeter in Britain, said that the fertiliser supplied by Coca-Cola to the farmers, will have devastating consequences on the local villagers' health.

BBC Radio 4's Face The Facts presenter John Waite who did the study visited the plant in the wake of an ongoing campaign by the locals who allege that the villages near the Coke factory are drying up because of the over-exploitation of water resources.

Early this year, the Pudussery panchayat in Palakkad district where the Plachimada plant is situated, refused to renew the Coca-Cola licence, saying the plant was depleting ground water in the region. But the licence was renewed after a court intervention.

However, farmers -- led by local politicians -- have been carrying out a campaign to shut down the Coke factory. Now the BBC study has spurred the local activists to step up 'the oust-Coke campaign.'

"The BBC report is shocking and an eye-opener. It is not only that the Coke factory has been depleting ground water levels in Palakkad, but the plant has also been supplying dangerous, toxic materials as good fertilisers to farmers," Communist Party of India Marxist leader V S Achuthanandan told rediff.com.

Achuthanandan, who is also the leader of opposition in Kerala assembly, said that Coke has no more justification to produce its soft drinks at the Kerala plant. "We will help the local people to step up their agitation against the Coke factory because it concerns the health and very existence of the people," he said.

According to the BBC study, the toxins found in the fertiliser samples include cadmium and lead. Cadmium is a carcinogen and can accumulate in the kidneys and may lead to kidney failure. Lead is particularly dangerous to children and the results of exposure can be fatal. Even at low levels it can cause mental retardation and severe anemia.

The BBC study has also quoted Britain's leading poisons expert, Professor John Henry, consultant at St Mary's Hospital in London, who asked the authorities to immediately ban the sludge from the Coke factory.

"The results have devastating consequences for those living near the areas where this waste has been dumped and for the thousands who depend on crops produced in these fields," Professor Henry said.

"What most worries me about the levels found is how this might be affecting pregnant women in the area. You would expect to see an increase in miscarriages, stillbirths and premature deliveries," the British expert warned.

But despite the BBC study and warnings from the experts, Coke officials said the sludge from the Plachimada factory is 'harmless' and 'good for crops.'

"We have done our own scientific studies and found that the fertilisers being supplied to the local farmers are harmless," a Coke factory official at Plachimada told rediff.com.

He said that the fertiliser has immensely benefited the local farmers who find it very difficult to buy very expensive branded fertiliser products.

"We have also not come across any reports of health problems and environmental hazards due to the sludge," the official added.

[GAsux]

Well, since neither of those address the economic issue I guess we've dropped that. Fair enough. I'm honestly glad that you posted the second article in addition to the first because at least that presents some semblance of investigative journalism.

I'm not sure the points you highlighed in the first article do much to further your case:

The activists, who claim the factory disgorges toxic industrial waste into neighboring fields and mango orchards, continue to urge the government to revoke the plant's industrial license.

I claimed to have slept with the hottest girl in school when I was 16. How about DOCUMENTING the instances of toxic waste being disgorged in the fields rather than making "claims".

According to Aflatoon, people living in villages around the plant often break out in rashes on drinking the water. Worse, the water has damaged wheat and paddy fields and the chick-pea crop in the region, he alleges.

According to my mom, eating right before you go to bed gives you nightmares. Some people get rashes when its hot out. Some people get rashes by laying in grass. I'm not trying to say there is no merit, but this is a pretty shitty argument if you ask me.

There are other negative fallouts. As Aflatoon points out, "Polluted water stagnating in the fields has become a breeding ground for mosquitoes, causing Malaria." He goes so far as to allege that, "A village dog died after drinking the water."

Now that is deep. A healthy, vibrant Indian village dog DIED after drinking the water! There can be only one explanation! Coke poison! My dog died a few years ago. I thought it was because she was old but maybe it was from too much lead in her Alpo can.

I'm not rying to be a dick here. I'm just saying that's hardly "scientific" evidence to support your claim.

Like I said, fortunately at least the BBC report seems to have apparently legitimately addressed the health concerns, which probably likely exist. But what to do? Perhaps you should vent your anger equally at the Indian government for allowing such a gross pollutant industry like soda manufacturing to operate in such a sensitive area. It's probably like that the manufacturing does produce some waste. If they are still within the legal limits of India's pollution laws, who's the real asshole?

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by GAsux

I think Senor Chimp was only half kidding. Mr. Coconut farmer would likely make in a week at the factory what he would have earned from his annual haul of ripe, moist coconuts......And then you can post another article about how an evil American corporation sent hundreds of local workers back into poverty by shutting down its plant. That would be swell.

Give coke time, an it'll happen, they'll leave. There's more than a question of simply getting a wage (although whether or not it's a "decent" one is debatable). There's also the question of self-sustainability. What your espousing is the "company town" solution, and how well did that work out for America? How has it helped places such as Troy, NY, Schenectady, NY, Flint, MI, and Pittsburgh, PA???

Multi-national corporations aren't in the business of being the benevolent providers of jobs. They are in the business of maximizing profits and minimizing expenses. So Coke will eventually leave India in persuit of lower wages, and when they do, India will be left with no water, no domestic infrastructure, and an ignorant class offactory workers. Is this preferable?

[AChimp]

In 30-40 years, who can say? It'll take that long for places like India to become too "expensive" for companies to be located in. Hell, they've got social problems up the ass that they still need to deal with, specifically their caste system that continues to endure despite efforts to halt it.

There are already people in India left with "no water, no domestic infrastructure, and an ignorant class offactory workers." And you know who put them there? Other Indians, not corporations.

[kellychaos]

What fresh hell is this?! My lifelong dream was to become a Coca Cola bottler (inspired by "Laverne & Shirley" reruns) and now my dreams have been dashed by them Indian bastards ... but, on the bright side, Coconut Coca Cola!

[Jeanette X]

Well Gasux, who do we, as consumers, have more influence over? Coca-Cola, or the Indian government?

There are already people in India left with "no water, no domestic infrastructure, and an ignorant class offactory workers." And you know who put them there? Other Indians, not corporations.

So? Do we need the situation to be made even worse by corperations?

Furthermore, the fact that Coca-Cola is giving the Indians toxic sludge to use as "fertilizer" is morally reprehensible, no matter how you look at it.

[The One and Only...]

Originally Posted by Jeanette X

Well Gasux, who do we, as consumers, have more influence over? Coca-Cola, or the Indian government?

Coca-Cola, but if India's worried about it, they should speak up. It's not our problem.

[Bennett]

"but if India's worried about it, they should speak up. It's not our problem."

I might not be a genius, but I'm pretty sure that's what the article was about... now go watch my movies. They're funny and relevant to this discussion.

[The One and Only...]

Originally Posted by Bennett

"but if India's worried about it, they should speak up. It's not our problem."

I might not be a genius, but I'm pretty sure that's what the article was about... now go watch my movies. They're funny and relevant to this discussion.

What I mean is that their government should go: "Bitch, get yo' ass outta my block!!!"

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by AChimp

In 30-40 years, who can say? It'll take that long for places like India to become too "expensive" for companies to be located in.

30 to 40 years? You're kidding, right? And even if it were that long, that could be potentially worse. Then you're talking at least one, maybe two generations of Indians who have become dependent upon Mother Coke to pay off their debts and put food on their tables.

The whole idea behind this neato- cool globalization stuff is that an interdependancy of markets is supposed to make everybody better. Ya know, all boats rise together sort of thing?? This is hardly the case when you have third world nations serving as exporting nations to Western nations that are primarily importing nations. There's one boat rising, and it's got DVD players with surround sound.

Hell, they've got social problems up the ass that they still need to deal with, specifically their caste system that continues to endure despite efforts to halt it.

This shouldn't be our business, and Coca-cola providing a few jobs for ex-farmers certainly isn't going to crack into this.

There are already people in India left with "no water, no domestic infrastructure, and an ignorant class offactory workers." And you know who put them there? Other Indians, not corporations.

Right. So back to how that justifies perpetuating such conditions....?

[AChimp]

Okay, time for seriousness.

I seem to recall that about 20 years ago, Coke left India because of a copyright/patent battle. The Indian government demanded that they turn over the "secret formula" to the public so other companies could copy the drink and produce it themselves. Coke refused, closed all the factories and pulled out of the country completely in retaliation. A few years ago the government and laws changed, so Coke re-entered the market.

There's a lot of ill-will remaining in India against Coke because this, though, and I think that these people will say anything to try to make Coke look bad. Notice that nobody there starts bitching about Pepsi, who were never asked to reveal their secrets. Also note how the names of the reporters who wrote those articles are Indian.

Coke is a huge global company now. They don't even count as a multinational anymore; they're bigger than that. Coke will not be "disgorging" toxic waste anywhere. Factory conditions and standards are kept to an absolute maximum, because the last thing they want is a big PR battle. Humans aren't even allowed into the room where the actual Coke is produced unless there is a problem because everything has to be kept perfectly clean, that's why they don't need thousands of employees anymore.

These farmers are just trying to keep a decades-old feud active in grand old Indian tradition and attempting to justify their archaic lifestyle. If you can't keep up, don't bitch about how everyone should slow down for you. There wouldn't even BE a Coke plant in India if Indians weren't drinking Coke.

[AChimp]

30 to 40 years? You're kidding, right? And even if it were that long, that could be potentially worse. Then you're talking at least one, maybe two generations of Indians who have become dependent upon Mother Coke to pay off their debts and put food on their tables.

Yes, because the few hundred Indians who work at the Coke plant will be reflective of the rest of Indian society, which is completely dependent on Coke.

You're forgetting the caste system again. There's only a few brands of Indian who would be allowed to consider working in the Coke factory.

This is hardly the case when you have third world nations serving as exporting nations to Western nations that are primarily importing nations. There's one boat rising, and it's got DVD players with surround sound.

Puh-leese. India is hardly a Third World country. When half your population lives like we do in the West, and the other half get to muck out clogged sewers, it's a social problem, not the fault of corporations.

Right. So back to how that justifies perpetuating such conditions....?

Perpetuating how? Like I said in my previous post, Coke is providing a product that millions of Indians use, throw away and stop caring about like the rest of us.

[Jeanette X]

Originally Posted by AChimp

[Right. So back to how that justifies perpetuating such conditions....?

Perpetuating how? Like I said in my previous post, Coke is providing a product that millions of Indians use, throw away and stop caring about like the rest of us.

Perpetuating by the toxic slurry and the draining of the water, thats how!

There's a lot of ill-will remaining in India against Coke because this, though, and I think that these people will say anything to try to make Coke look bad. Notice that nobody there starts bitching about Pepsi, who were never asked to reveal their secrets. Also note how the names of the reporters who wrote those articles are Indian.

Coke is a huge global company now. They don't even count as a multinational anymore; they're bigger than that. Coke will not be "disgorging" toxic waste anywhere. Factory conditions and standards are kept to an absolute maximum, because the last thing they want is a big PR battle. Humans aren't even allowed into the room where the actual Coke is produced unless there is a problem because everything has to be kept perfectly clean, that's why they don't need thousands of employees anymore.

Oh, bullshit. If this was all true, then why is there an independent BBC investigation that says that the "fertilizer" that they gave to the Indians is toxic?
So just because the names of the reporters were Indian means that the report can't possibly be objective? Do you really think that all of India's billions of people are pissed off at Coke for not revealing their secret formula? I doubt the majority even care.

These farmers are just trying to keep a decades-old feud active in grand old Indian tradition and attempting to justify their archaic lifestyle. If you can't keep up, don't bitch about how everyone should slow down for you. There wouldn't even BE a Coke plant in India if Indians weren't drinking Coke.

Did it ever occur to you that the Coke might be being EXPORTED, numbnuts? And I'd hardly call growing badly needed food with a sophisticated irrigation system "an archaic lifestyle", especially when Coke isn't providing a lot of jobs to these people.

[AChimp]

I doubt the majority even care.

Exactly. So why are you if Indians themselves do not?

There's only a tiny percentage of people who are really pissed off at Coke, and the rest of them just go along buying it up as usual, not caring that the coconut farmers can't show off their supposed sophistication with irrigation systems.

Did it ever occur to you that the Coke might be being EXPORTED, numbnuts?

Coke doesn't export Coke around much, especially not in a billion-consumer market. They build factories where the demand is high because they are global, or contract out to local bottlers. The Coke you drink is probably made nearby, within 100 km, especially if you live near a big city.

Sure, that Coke plant might be servicing a few neighbouring countries, but the local market always comes first with a product like Coke.

India has really strict trade controls and an ass-backwards transportation system. If Coke were to export anything in that region, they would do it from somewhere else like Thailand or Singapore, otherwise Coke would cost $30 per bottle in some places, making it totally useless for any consumer.

Bottom line, no Coke plant in India if India wasn't consuming said Coke.

[Jeanette X]

So why are you if Indians themselves do not?

Ask yourself why most people on this board care motives for Iraq when 1/3 of the country thinks the WMDs have been found.

There's only a tiny percentage of people who are really pissed off at Coke, and the rest of them just go along buying it up as usual, not caring that the coconut farmers can't show off their supposed sophistication with irrigation systems.

If the Indians were aware of it, I think they would care.

Bottom line, no Coke plant in India if India wasn't consuming said Coke.

So any criticism and opposition of a business in any country is essentially b.s. if not every single person in the country effected is aware of it and is taking action?

[AChimp]

Ask yourself why most people on this board care motives for Iraq when 1/3 of the country thinks the WMDs have been found.

Is 1/3 of Americans a majority? Are they indicative of the rest of America? Are these villagers in India a majority?

If the Indians were aware of it, I think they would care.

Let me put this into a little bit of perspective for you:

When you hear that a few dozen farmers in Kansas have had their crops ruined for one reason or another, do you stop everything you are doing and start writing your Congressman demanding immediate action?

No, you do not, since you live in Connecticut and the Kansas farmers are thousands of miles away. The plight of a handful of Kansas hicks has no bearing on what you do. Yes, you might feel a little bit of sympathy, but you don't really change anything about your way of life and go about your business as if nothing has happened.

Now imagine that the U.S. has a population four times as large as what it is now. That makes these few dozen farmers an even smaller minority, and when it comes down to it, the small amount of crops that they produce compared to every other farmer in Kansas, and the rest of the country, is a drop of piss compared to the ocean.

There will be no coconut famine in India because these guys can't grow anything anymore. The average Indian will not give a shit, especially if he or she doesn't like coconuts anyways, because it will not affect them. They have their own water problems to worry about.

Besides, coconut farmers belong to a lower caste and are beneath notice, except when you are telling him to get out of your way.

So any criticism and opposition of a business in any country is essentially b.s. if not every single person in the country effected is aware of it and is taking action?

Go ahead and criticize away. Just don't expect people to take you seriously when it's coconut farmers in a country that has a record of not being receptive to Western companies that are making the allegations.

The need for Coke products by millions of people supercedes the needs of a few coconut farmers and the village dog. That's just the way the world works.

[Jeanette X]

Is 1/3 of Americans a majority? Are they indicative of the rest of America? Are these villagers in India a majority?

I'm afraid you have misunderstood me I mean that we, a small handfull of people, are hotly debating the Iraq issue while 1/3 of America is astoundingly ignorant about it, and rest don't seem to care much more. My point is that simply because not that many people seem to care too deeply about the Iraq issue doesn't make it irrelevant.

When you hear that a few dozen farmers in Kansas have had their crops ruined for one reason or another, do you stop everything you are doing and start writing your Congressman demanding immediate action?

If it was caused by a giant corperation utterly screwing those people over, then yes, I would start writing letters to the appropriate people and boycotting their product.

Go ahead and criticize away. Just don't expect people to take you seriously when it's coconut farmers in a country that has a record of not being receptive to Western companies that are making the allegations.

Although India is not without fault in handling these situations, I think that the incident in Bhopal and the reaction of the Western company involved is a good reason for them to not be immdiately squealing with joy whenever a new factory opens up.

The need for Coke products by millions of people supercedes the needs of a few coconut farmers and the village dog. That's just the way the world works.

I'm not proposing that Coke stop making their products. I'd just like to see them do it without harming an entire community.