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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Apr 10th, 2003, 01:21 AM        Cultural Gulf Separates Forces, Iraqis
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...507apr07.story

Cultural Gulf Separates Forces, Iraqis

By Letta Tayler
STAFF CORRESPONDENT

April 7, 2003

Central Iraq - The Iraqi artillery fire crashed into the edge of the field
before dawn, sending bivouacking Marines into a panic as they scrambled from
their sleeping bags into their armored assault vehicles.

"I say we just -- nuke this place and make it into a parking lot," seethed
Lance Cpl. Ryan Eman, 22, of Michigan.

U.S. forces invading this country make frequent reference to "nuking"
Iraqis, whom they call "ragheads" and "camel jockeys," often without
appearing to distinguish between civilians and enemy forces. The extent to
which such remarks are part of the daily vernacular underscores the cultural
and political challenges the United States faces as it becomes a major
military presence in a post-Saddam Iraq.

Asked later about his remark, Eman said he hadn't sincerely wished to drop a
nuclear bomb on the people he was sent to liberate from Iraqi strongman
Saddam Hussein. "I was frustrated and tired," he said. "I don't wish nukes
on anybody, because anything we throw like that at somebody could come back
at us."

Most Marines will say the same. "We're men of honor. We don't mean it, we
just want to get this over with and go home," said Lance Cpl. Jay Dreyer,
20, of Lake Crystal, Minn., who admits he's occasionally used the "N" word
in reference to Iraqis.

Moving north into populated areas during the past week, Marines within
Regimental Combat Team 5, many of them in a foreign mission for the first
time, have come into increasingly close contact with a variety of Iraqis.
Some are soldiers firing at them from tanks and militiamen who've stormed
them with rocket-propelled grenades; others are men, women and children
who've given them thumbs up and pressed gifts of coarse flat bread and
sticky dates into their hands.

For many troops, the friendly exchanges have been as much of an eye-opener
as the hostile ones.

While his unit rolled through a village near the Tigris River a few days
ago, Navy Corpsman Ryan Patrick Cox, a medic attached to the combat team's
2nd Battalion, treated a young boy who was sick - probably from drinking the
untreated water found in most parts of the country.

After Cox gave the child penicillin and purified water, the boy's father
asked his son, "Saddam or Bush?" "Bush!" the child said and kissed Cox on
the cheek.

"It made me feel so good, like we're doing the right thing," Cox said.

Other Marines, however, remain circumspect - partly because of their own
actions. "The way these Iraqis smile and wave at us as we drive by,
sometimes I think they support us more than the Americans back home do,"
said Lance Cpl. Ben Dible, 21, of Grand Junction, Colo. "But I wonder what
they think when we leave our fighting holes and our trash all over their
yards."

U.S. military officials are repeatedly urging troops to avoid any conduct
that would prompt Iraqis to turn against coalition forces. However, some
such incidents already have occurred, such as bombings that have struck
civilians, or the two episodes last week in which U.S. forces shot and
killed civilians at checkpoints.

No reports have surfaced of serious U.S. military looting or pillaging, and
troops have been diligent about burying trash. Nevertheless, plastic
Meal-Ready-to-Eat wrappers have become ubiquitous along roads and in fields
as American troops move north. To make room for their assault vehicles and
tanks or to build bridges, U.S. forces have bulldozed civilians' palm trees
and wheat fields. They have accidentally machine-gunned or fired mortar at
camels, seeing them in the far distance near tanks and believing them to be
Iraqi soldiers.

One group of Marines last week snatched a chicken from the yard of a
crumbling dirt farmhouse near where they bivouacked, hours after evacuating
the family inside on the chance they were enemy. The Marines wrung the
chicken's neck, plucked it, roasted it over an open fire and merrily ate it,
seemingly oblivious to the fact that it might have been one of the family's
few possessions.

Marines have at times become impatient or irate when Iraqi families ignore
their signals to avoid areas under military control. Yesterday, unit
commanders told troops that they'd been using the wrong hand signal for
halt: a palm held up perpendicular to the ground, which actually signifies
"welcome." The correct motion is to hold a hand parallel to the ground and
move it slightly up and down, they said.

In addition to being concerned that previously welcoming Iraqis might turn
against them, U.S. military officials say they are even more concerned about
the fact that many Iraqi soldiers and militia are blending in with the
civilian population to ambush U.S. forces.

Not only does that make Iraqi troops harder to spot, but it further blurs
the line for many Marines between innocent civilians and hostile Iraqi
troops.

"It's like you're fighting a faceless enemy," said Cpl. Jeb Moser, 21, of
Ruston, La. "They're all just ragheads to me, the same way they used to call
the enemy 'gooks' in Vietnam."

"Raghead, raghead, can't you see? This old war ain't -- to me," sang Lance
Cpl. Christopher Akins, 21, of Louisville, Ky., sweat running down his face
in rivulets as he dug a fighting trench one recent afternoon under a blazing
sun.

Asked whom he considered a raghead, Akins said: "Anybody who actively
opposes the United States of America's way ... If a little kid actively
opposes my way of life, I'd call him a raghead, too."

As for non-hostile Iraqis, "I think they can be brought up intellectually,
but it'll take some work because they're still in the Stone Age," Akins
said. He appeared startled to hear that Iraqis are descendants of ancient
Mesopotamia, a thriving civilization that created the world's first known
system of writing and body of law, and that until the havoc of Hussein's
regime, Iraq also enjoyed a substantial and highly educated middle class.

Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.
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Old Apr 10th, 2003, 01:50 AM        Ha ha
Come on now Kev. Big deal. So they rooted out some rednecks in the Marines. Go figure. I know you didn't post that to imply that those guys represent the majority of U.S. soldiers fighting over there.

That articlel is just as slanted as the ones the attempt to portray the soldiers as some kind of god like saviors risking their lives to liberate Iraq our of their sheer love for humainty.

I have to admit it made me laugh.
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Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
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Old Apr 10th, 2003, 06:39 AM       
Just another example of a liberal trying to bash the military.

Libs hate the success of this war and want to tarnish it any way they can.

.....a sure sign of poor character.

Kevin went home yesterday and saw what was a poisitive day for the U.S. and Iraqi people........and it made him angry.
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Old Apr 10th, 2003, 07:35 AM       
Your record's scratched.
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Old Apr 10th, 2003, 07:54 AM       
That was tripe Kev, I wouldn't even call it second rate yellow journalism. It was obviously slanted, as though objectivity was burdensome, and worse yet, inaccurate and misleading. :/


"U.S. military officials are repeatedly urging troops to avoid any conduct that would prompt Iraqis to turn against coalition forces. However, some such incidents already have occurred, such as bombings that have struck civilians, or the two episodes last week in which U.S. forces shot and killed civilians at checkpoints."

That paragraph alone is so reaching, its obvious the guy is searching for reasons to crucify the actions of our troops overseas who have, largely, managed to behave as civil as possible in a war zone. Nothing even close to the atrocities committed in the Chosin River Reservoir or the action of ROK Marines during Vietnam. How can you possible compare live fire from soldier who can see their targets, with a missile fired from a position of 30,000 feet? Protecting a strongpoint in command base from what appeared to a be suicide bombing run, after the same command had been hit once already, is made to sound like some sort of execution order carried out in cold blood.

GA is right. This is trash.
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Apr 10th, 2003, 08:44 AM       
I think most of you missed the point of me posting it, and the idea that they "roote out" the three bigots in the ENTIRE Marine Corps. is a rather naive notion, don't ya think?? I think it was trying to express a larger problem ahead with the advancement of Iraq and its redevelopment, the language gaps that will hinder us, cultural, religious, etc.

I think it helps to show that our troops are HUMANS, and not puritan knights who went there like Moses to liberate the slaves. Wouldn't you all agree this is important, rather than being naive and assuming that this is really about "Iraqi freedom"?

Ronnie, you are a sick human being, and I take pity on you. But please don't muck up anymore threads, ok?
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Old Apr 10th, 2003, 10:31 AM       
haha, yea kev nodoubt.

the bush regime has placed many people in such a terrible position, this is a HUGE challenge to humanity to remain sane during insane times. I'm affraid the trap is set for guerrilla war now. especially if saddam is dead. many arabs in general seem to be holding their breath for the moment and the response to flag waving in baghdad isnt going to be short term..
we and the iraqis (if not the world)are teetering on the edge of a vast chasm, this escallation is a huge gamble.
US mercenaries are still human beings..

how can they fight a battle WITHOUT demonizing the enemy??

ignoring reality doesnt make it go away (ga,ron,ror)
sheesh
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Old Apr 10th, 2003, 11:11 AM        Ha ha yeah...
Kev,
Come on now. I'm not saying there aren't more like those guys out there. Just as I'm sure you're not saying the represent the majority of folks out there. Regardless, these guys are not policy makers. They are not dispute settlers. The bulk of the interaction with the Iraqi people will be done by the leadership, not Billy Bob Marine from Birhmingham Alabama. But go figure. There are some uneducated people in the military! Dear god!

Ranxer,
Don't presume for one second to tell me about reality, expecially in the context of the military. How funny that you would think so highly of your opinion that you would TELL me what reality is. I can tell you from 7 years of experience that while there certainly are those types of people out there, they absolutely do not represent the majority. As for demonizing your enemy, once again, your "reality" is shit if you ask me. What do you know about demonizing an enemy?

Let me put it to you like this. When I moved back to California a few years ago I told the movers that if they scratched my big screen tv I'd kill them. My tv is scratched, yet the movers are still alive. When a soldier who's faced combat for several weeks says "We should nuke them all", it's not a literal phrase. Just like saying, "This thread is gay". Clearly this thread has no homosexual tendencies. It's simply a statement of anxiety.
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Old Apr 10th, 2003, 11:26 AM       
i guess i'm reacting to the 'big deal' statement you made..
the 'cultural problem' is a HUGE deal, i should have been more specific, but ignoring racial problems is part of what got us in this mess. bush smears racism into the mix of a war on terror.. the 'them' and 'they' being the 'enemy of america' his regime depends on racism through fear and this adds up to Demonization. its been extended to anyone against military action now..(with us or with the terrorists) with this situation of the fighters blending into the civilians the problem is compounded.
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