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Originally Posted by Preechr
I have been guilty of resenting unfairly those that are currently commiting the sins I've conditioned myself to avoid, similar to the reformed alcoholic that hates a drinker in a way only one that's "been there" can. That's just one more thing I've had to learn not to do.
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OK. I think we see differently on this, but I didn't mean to come across as attacking your ethics or anything like that. I'll let you have that discussion with Ziggy. :P
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Apparently you've not seen the economic data, i.e. studies of the bill itself, that says prices at the counter will not increase AND people rich and otherwise will take home their entire paycheck AND poor people will "get back" a disproportionate percentage of their taxed income BEFORE it's spent AND no matter how much money poor people waste on ill-considered purchases they'll never be taxed for more money than they have spent which is always gonna be less than what the Bill Gateses of the country spend even when everybody spends on a subsistence level.
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What bill again are we referencing here? Perhaps I still simply don't follw. If people are being taxed at the sales counter, but then simply receiving rebates, what did you suggest, once a month, than why have the taxes at all? I've seen some call the sales tax revenue-neutral, but that proposition seems to be revenue-negative to me. Now, I know as a Libertarian you might dig that, but is that actually solvent?
I'm actually a little surprised that as a Libertarian you even support this. One argument I've seen in favor of the sales tax is that it'll encourage people to save by making them consider the weight of their day-to-day purchases. Is it the job of the government to be deciding that behavior?
Secondly, I know you as being a pretty strict constructionalist. If a federal income tax doesn't pass constitutional muster in your book, how does a tax on consumption for the purpose of raising revenue? Curbing the consumption habits of Americans through heavy, up-front taxation is one thing, curbing government spending? That's a whole other animal.
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I've already explained how a poor or middle class person can expect to, if not profit, then at least pay much less in taxes than those with more money to spend assuming those with money spend more to live than rich folks. To posit that rich folks spend quantatively less to live than poor folks is just silly, Kevin. There's just no way that's true.
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My point wasn't that rich people spend less per capita than middle and lower class folks (although to argue that home ownership only exists in the upper-class is rather silly, isn't it?). My point was that a national retail sales tax brings taxation to the front lines. It taxes people on their consumption, and I believe it's the paycheck-to-paycheck people who would suffer the most under this, because it goes right after the cash, credit, etc. that they immediately have on hand. And again, if you're saying it's no big deal because they get it all back, then uh, what's the point?
I also think you underestimate the power of a 30% sales tax, the outrage, protest, and flat out anger it would create. I only say this from working most of my teenage years in a miserable retail outlet, where people would berate me for charging them a 3.25% rate on a fucking tie.
Also, there seems to me like this would just create more collection headaches. So rather than taking from an individual's income, the federal government will then be responsible for collecting from business and retail industries? That doesn't sound sketchy to you?
And back to my point above, I personally believe that the tax system is built (be it intentionally or not) to serve big-spender consumers. You might say that you can't dodge taxes at the retail counter, but i will counter that we simply don't know, because we haven't quite seen it on a grand scale yet, with a high % rate. What would prevent retail companies from creating their own "priority customer" loopholes to allow large consumers to dodge heavy taxation, sort of like folks with buckets of cash can dump it into foundations and charities to avoid the Estate tax???
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I wasn't really prepared to change your opinion on the subject. I simply figured you'd see the advantages to the Fair Tax from the liberal side of the coin. I do. We can change the subject if you want...
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I'm actually warming up to the topic, so whatever.....
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