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mburbank mburbank is offline
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Old Sep 29th, 2006, 10:08 AM        Torture legalized
We now live in a country that has officially legalized torture.

The language slightly obscures it, but barring 'waterboarding', murder, maiming and rape, all other 'alternative methods' are allowed, and are allowed to go undefined, even by congress. McCain said on one of the Sunday news shows that he did not know what 'alternative methods' were, would not be informed of it, and was okay with that. So much for concience.

The Geneva conventions will be obeyed, but the President is allowed to interpret them, and there will be no oversight of how they are applied by congress or courts.

Violation of the conventions is concidered illegal, but violators who do not kill, maim, or rape are immune from prosecution.

Prisons outside of the US will still be in use, and their 'professionals' will use 'alternative methods' without oversight, for which even if they break the law (and who will know?) in most cases they cannot be prosecuted.

Does anyone at all think this does not, at the very least, encourage torture? Does anyone at all think that under these confitions at least some innocents mistakenly imprisoned will be tortured?

Anyone who is not a US citizen, even people in this country completely legally, can be defined as 'enemy combatants' by the executive branch without judicial or conressional oversight. They cannot challenge this status, and can be confined without charge, or access to the courts, until the "war on Terror" is over, which could easily be a life sentence. Does anyone think such power will not be abused?

That's how I read the new laws. If anyone thinks I've got some aspect of it wrong, please correct me.

This is who we are now. A nation that doesn't just covertly condone torture. It is legal and we use it. No one outside the executive branch has any way of knowing who we use it on.

Don't fool yourself into thinking this means dogs barking and loud music. Do you recall the Ahbu Garib photos which seemed so shocking? With the exceptions of rape and murder (and mostly we did not see those photos) all of the other pictures are now legal. Take a moment and imagine what you could do to another person without raping, maiming or killing them.

If you believe torture is acceptable, you don't even need to respond, although if you've got something to say beyond 'I think torture is okay' you certainly should feel free. And if you believe torture is acceptable, do you think the torture of innocents is regrettable but a neccesary evil, or that innocents will not be tortured? And what about the lack of oversight? Is that American?

I think ths is a deeply shameful moment in Amercian history. I think the three Republicans who could have stopped this and instead crafted a 'compromise' with is little more than a fig leaf and permission not to know should be ashamed.

I also think the Supreme court will strike the detention and interrogation laws down, as they are clearly unconstitutional. But that will take years, and during those years people will be tortured and the law of Habeas Corpus will be suspended. And yes, I now Lincoln did that. It was a stain then, and it's a stain now. There were Prisoner of war camps during the civil war where people starved to death, does that make the practice acceptable?

Are we so weak and scared that we cannot fight terror without torture and secret prisons and imprisonement without charge until "the War on Terror Ends" which is something that could easily last forever?
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