Go Back   I-Mockery Forum > I-Mockery Discussion Forums > Philosophy, Politics, and News
FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
sspadowsky sspadowsky is offline
Will chop you good.
sspadowsky's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Thrill World
sspadowsky is probably a spambot
Old Feb 10th, 2004, 06:48 PM        Bush Even Makes Conservatives Start to Sweat
When you've got the New Republic calling the Republican president clueless, you know Dubya's in some trouble.

I saw Andrew Sullivan on Bill Maher's show the other night, and he's a remarkably intelligent man. I don't agree with him politically (EDIT- in terms of the Iraq conflict; I don't know much more about his leanings except that he works for TNR), but he's a smart cookie, and this is quite an enlightening article. Lengthy, but worth it.

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=fisking&s=sullivan020904

DAILY EXPRESS
Attention Deficit
by Andrew Sullivan


Printer friendly
Only at TNR Online | Post date 02.09.04 E-mail this article

Many conservative commentators greeted the president's "Meet The Press" interview with considerable gloom. President Bush, they argued, seemed tired, bumbling, didn't actually answer the questions asked, and failed to address the most important issues out there in the country. I disagree somewhat. I felt his answers on the war and its general rationale, his willingness to concede errors, and his demeanor were strong and appealing to those who aren't already turned off by this president's character and personality. But it was in the second part of the interview that things, to my mind, unraveled. Bush offered no compelling rationale for reelecting him. He offered excuses on the economy; and, on the critical matter of the country's fiscal health, he seemed scarily out of touch. Here's the most worrying section of the interview, with some of my comments:


RUSSERT: The General Accounting Office [GAO], which are the nation's auditors ...

BUSH: Yes.

RUSSERT: ... have done a study of our finances. And this is what your legacy will be to the next generation.

It says that our current fiscal policy is unsustainable. They did a computer simulation that shows that balancing the budget in 2040 could require either cutting total federal spending in half or doubling federal taxes.

Why, as a fiscal conservative, as you like to call yourself, would you allow a $500 billion deficit and this kind of deficit disaster?

BUSH: Sure. The budget I just proposed to the Congress cuts the deficit in half in five years.

Now, I don't know what the assumptions are in the GAO report, but I do know that, if Congress is wise with the people's money, we can cut the deficit in half. And, at that point in time, as a percentage of GDP, the deficit will be relatively low.


One simple, perhaps nit-picky, point: To the question "Why ... would you allow ... this kind of deficit disaster?" the president replies, "Sure." Sure? I think I know what the president means. It's a verbal place-saver, a pause. But it's surely worth pointing out that I know of no one who can reply to an allegation that he is about to deny with an actual affirmative. "Did you kill your wife?" "Sure. I never touched her." Who talks this way?

Then the president uses the phrase "if Congress is wise with the people's money." But the point is that, in the last three years, the Congress has, by any measure, been grotesquely unwise with the people's money. And the president vetoed not a single spending measure. In fact, his own budgets exploded spending on both war and homeland security and every other government department, from Labor to Agriculture, before the pork-sniffers in Congress even got started. Then the president simply reiterates, and doesn't explain, something no one believes, which is that the deficit can be cut in half in five years--before, as even he would have to concede, it heads into the stratosphere.

So, in one response, we have a one-word answer that means the opposite of what it should; we have an irrelevance; and we have a pipe dream. And the president expects the people to trust him with their money? If your financial adviser came up with such an answer, after a huge drop in your personal savings and massive loans coming due in a few years, you'd fire him. Back to Bush:


I agree with the assessment that we've got some long-term financial issues we must look at. And that's one reason I asked Congress to deal with Medicare. I strongly felt that, if we didn't have an element of competition, that if we weren't modern with the Medicare program, if we didn't incorporate what's called health savings accounts to encourage Americans to take more control over their health care decisions, we would have even a worse financial picture in the long run.

I believe Medicare is going to not only make the system work better for seniors, but it's going to help the fiscal situation of our long-term projection.


OK, let me put this gently here. Is he out of his mind? The minor reforms to Medicare are indeed welcome in providing more choice and some accountability in the program. But the major impact of his Medicare reform is literally trillions of dollars in new spending for the foreseeable future. He has enacted one of the biggest new entitlements since Richard Nixon; he has attached it to a population that is growing fast in numbers; and the entitlement is to products, prescription drugs, whose prices are rising faster than almost everything else in the economy. Despite all this, the president believes it will "help the fiscal situation of our long-term projection"? Who does he think he's kidding? It's like a man who earns $50,000 per year getting a mortgage for a $5 million house and bragging that he got a good interest rate.


BUSH: We've got to deal with Social Security as well. As you know, I mean, these entitlement programs need to be dealt with.

We are dealing with some entitlement programs right now in the Congress. The highway bill, it's going to be an interesting test of fiscal discipline on both sides of the aisle. The Senate's is about $370, as I understand, $370 billion; the House is at less than that, but over $300 billion. And, as you know, the budget I propose is about $256 billion. So...


It would appear from this response that the president believes that highway construction is an entitlement program. Again: Does he have the faintest idea what he's talking about?


RUSSERT: But your base conservatives--listen to Rush Limbaugh, the Heritage Foundation, Cato Institute--they're all saying you're the biggest spender in American history.

BUSH: Well, they're wrong.

Based on what? They have the numbers. All the president has is words.


RUSSERT: Mr. President...

BUSH: If you look at the appropriations bills that were passed under my watch, in the last year of President Clinton, discretionary spending was up 15 percent, and ours have steadily declined.

OK, let me be candid here and say I don't know what he means. Does he believe that discretionary spending has declined each year under his watch? Surely not. It has exploded during his administration. Is he saying that the rate of increase has slowed? Again: surely not. As Joshua Claybourn has shown, Clinton's last budget increased domestic discretionary spending by 4.56 percent. Bush's first budget increased it by 7.06 percent. His second increased it by over 10 percent. We have a few options here: The president doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's lying, or he trusts people telling him lies. But it is undeniable that this president is not on top of the most damaging part of his legacy--the catastrophe he is inflicting on our future fiscal health.


And the other thing that I think it's important for people who watch the expenditures side of the equation is to understand we're at war, Tim, and, any time you commit your troops into harm's way, they must have the best equipment, the best training, and the best possible pay. That's where--we owe it to their loved ones.

Fine. So why has the president increased discretionary spending outside of defense and homeland security by such a huge amount? Why the massive agricultural subsidies? Why the vast new Medicare entitlement? Couldn't he have said, "Look, we're at war. We cannot afford these other things right now." Did that even occur to him?

I'm not one of those who believes that a good president has to have the debating skills of a Tony Blair or the rhetorical facility of Bill Clinton. I cannot help liking the president as a person. I still believe he did a great and important thing in liberating Iraq (although we have much, much more to do). But, if this is the level of coherence, grasp of reality, and honesty that is really at work in his understanding of domestic fiscal policy, then we are in even worse trouble than we thought. We have a captain on the fiscal Titanic who thinks he's in the Caribbean.

Andrew Sullivan is a senior editor at TNR.
__________________
"If honesty is the best policy, then, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy. Second is not all that bad."
-George Carlin
Reply With Quote
  #2  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Feb 10th, 2004, 06:50 PM       
Isn't the New Republic a liberal magazine? That's what I heard Tucker call it on C-SPAN...
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Feb 10th, 2004, 06:53 PM       
If it's liberal I'm an anarchist.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
BombsBurstingInAir BombsBurstingInAir is offline
Member
BombsBurstingInAir's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
BombsBurstingInAir is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 10:17 AM       
It's all about compassionate conservatism baby! After all, regular conservatism is not compassionate, but rather evil and hate mongering.
__________________
Hi.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Cosmo Electrolux Cosmo Electrolux is offline
Stone Pants Rabbit
Cosmo Electrolux's Avatar
Join Date: May 2001
Location: In your distant memory
Cosmo Electrolux is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 10:32 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One and Only...
Isn't the New Republic a liberal magazine? That's what I heard Tucker call it on C-SPAN...
you mean you don't know?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 11:46 AM       
"The president seemed tired, unsure and often bumbling. His answers were repetitive, and when he tried to clarify them he tended to make them worse…He seemed in some way disconnected from the event.”
-Peggy Noonan, on W's Meet the Press performance
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Emu Emu is offline
Level 29 ♂
Emu's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Peoria, IL
Emu is probably a real personEmu is probably a real person
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 12:13 PM       
He's pretty disconnected from the whole country, I think.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Ronnie Raygun Ronnie Raygun is offline
Senior Member
Ronnie Raygun's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, Georgia United States of America
Ronnie Raygun is probably a spambot
Old Feb 11th, 2004, 10:04 PM       
I don't think most American's think so.

Look, we wasn't prepared and he's on the ropes with Conservatives because he'a been pushing a left wing domestic agenda.

He has no friends politically right now.

He's geting it from all angles.

When his presidential campaign kicks in.....it's going to be a different story. You'll see Bush more prepared and he'll be on the attack. Afterall, Kerry is a much easier target than Dean or Clark would have been. Just look at his voting record.
__________________
Paint your genitals red and black, weedwack the hair off your grandmothers back" - Sean Conlin from Estragon
Reply With Quote
  #9  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Feb 12th, 2004, 02:35 PM       
No one on the left wing would concider his agenda left wing. On the surface an entitlement for seniors for drugs seems very lefty. But pricetag alne isn't what makes something Liberal. Since all the money is being funneled to big drug companies that are already paying out rewards by hiring the people who wrote he legislation at huge salaries, this isn't liberal. It's piracy.

This guy has no agenda. He is a robber barron.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
The One and Only... The One and Only... is offline
Mocker
The One and Only...'s Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Harlem
The One and Only... is probably a spambot
Old Feb 12th, 2004, 07:56 PM       
And you're robin hood, right?
__________________
I have seen all things that are done under the sun; all is vanity and a chase after wind.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Matt Harty Matt Harty is offline
Dirty Girl
Matt Harty's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CLIT
Matt Harty is probably a spambot
Old Feb 12th, 2004, 07:59 PM       
Sorry, I just had to point out that your not funny.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
mburbank mburbank is offline
The Moxie Nerve Food Tonic
mburbank's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: right behind you
mburbank has disabled reputation
Old Feb 13th, 2004, 10:31 AM       
Yes, OAO. I'm Robin Hood.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
teh_mastar! teh_mastar! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wilmington, NC
teh_mastar! is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 09:59 PM       
They call me Little John, but don't let my name fool ya...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Pee Wee Herman Pee Wee Herman is offline
Senior Member
Pee Wee Herman's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Pee Wee's Playhouse
Pee Wee Herman is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 10:13 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by mburbank
Yes, OAO. I'm Robin Hood.
Which one? The one from the Mel Gibson movie or the Kevin Costner movie?
__________________
I love you.

"Boy, me and my family sure are quoyed a lot in people's signatures"
-Max Burbank
Reply With Quote
  #15  
teh_mastar! teh_mastar! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wilmington, NC
teh_mastar! is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 10:18 PM       
Why are we leaving out Disney and Errol Flynn?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 10:52 PM       
That was Mel Brooks, dipshit.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 11:15 PM       
Congratulations on yet another amazing post, Perndog.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 11:20 PM       
Shouldn't you be busy not bathing somewhere?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 11:31 PM       
Internet: Back. forward. Stop. Favourites. Mute. -Vol. +Vol. Media. AUDIO. PROGRAM FILE: Call. My Computer. Search. Refresh. Home. Mail. Stop. Play. Next. Prev. Power. Sleep. Wake. Esc. F1. F2. F3. F4. F5. F6. F7. F8. F9. F10. F11(with a little lock on it). F12. PrntScr. Scroll Lock. Pause Break. Fu! ~. 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 0. -. =. \. Ins. Home. Page Up. Num Lock. /. *. - Tab. Q. W. E. R. T. Y. U. I. O. P. {. }. Return. Delete. End. Page Down. 7. 8. 9. +. Caps lock. A. S. D. F. G. H. J. K. L. :.". 4. 5. 6. Shift. Macro. Z. X. C. V. B. N. M. ,. .. /. Shift. Up. 1. 2. 3. Enter. Ctrl. Alt. Space. Alt. windows key I hate you. Ctrl. Left. Down. Right. 0. Del.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
teh_mastar! teh_mastar! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wilmington, NC
teh_mastar! is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 11:35 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perndog
That was Mel Brooks, dipshit.
My Little John quote was from the Mel Brooks adaptation, but I was addressing Burbank's "Robin Hood" comment when I spoke of Disney and Flynn...dipshit.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Perndog Perndog is offline
Fartin's biggest fan
Perndog's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snowland
Perndog is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 11:45 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by teh_mastar!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perndog
That was Mel Brooks, dipshit.
My Little John quote was from the Mel Brooks adaptation, but I was addressing Burbank's "Robin Hood" comment when I spoke of Disney and Flynn...dipshit.
And I was correcting Pee Wee Herman when I spoke of Mel Brooks...dipshit.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #22  
teh_mastar! teh_mastar! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wilmington, NC
teh_mastar! is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 11:47 PM       
...and I'd have to ask Perndog, but I think he was addressing Max as well, dip...nevermind.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Helm Helm is offline
Mocker
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mount Fuji
Helm is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 11:48 PM       
Politicians promise you the world! All they want was your money and a bitch on the side! What went wrong?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #24  
teh_mastar! teh_mastar! is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Wilmington, NC
teh_mastar! is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 11:49 PM       
Pee Wee, not Perndog. Dammit, I can't type straight.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
Queen of the Beasts
Jeanette X's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: in my burrow
Jeanette X is probably a spambot
Old Feb 17th, 2004, 11:50 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One and Only...
Isn't the New Republic a liberal magazine? That's what I heard Tucker call it on C-SPAN...
That's right OAO, go and attack the source instead of the arguement.

"It's those slimy liberals slandering our beloved president again!"
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

   


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:40 PM.


© 2008 I-Mockery.com
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.