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  #76  
Zebra 3 Zebra 3 is offline
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Old Apr 19th, 2004, 01:44 PM       
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Originally Posted by AChimp
I can actually get a seat in the mall food court now, too! The smoking section isn't filled with people who sit for two hours nursing their 99 cent cup of coffee, while people like me who will buy an entire $8.00 meal have to walk around and eventually decide not to bother at all. If you told the smokers to leave back then, well, you were infringing on their rights as a paying customer!
- Non-smokers will nurse that goddamn 99ยข cup of coffee as well!
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Old Apr 19th, 2004, 04:23 PM       
I can't believe you all are still over-looking the business owner as being an individual with his own rights (or liberties ... whatever), one of which is to run his/her business the way they see fit. If they don't get non-smoking customers OR employees, so what. It's should be their choice. Is a smoking-allowed business really going to impact on people outside the business any more than the multitude of combustion engines spewing out carbon monoxide? We are over-regulated, in certain areas, as it is. I mean, I consider myself somewhat liberal, but ... this forum ... where does it end for some of you?
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  #78  
Carnivore Carnivore is offline
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Old Apr 19th, 2004, 07:43 PM       
I echo AChimp's sentiments.

That is all.
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Old Apr 20th, 2004, 02:41 PM        Son-of-a-fuckin'-bitch!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellychaos
I can't believe you all are still over-looking the business owner as being an individual with his own rights (or liberties ... whatever), one of which is to run his/her business the way they see fit....
- Oh for fuck sakes, you're only inviting AChimp to tell yet again his burger draggin' on the floor story.
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Old Apr 20th, 2004, 03:50 PM       
In that case, all they'd have to do is put a "Smokers Welcome" or "Salmonella (sp?) Eaters Welcome" sign outside the doors of the business.
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Old Apr 20th, 2004, 11:05 PM       
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Since the ban was put in place, business at restaurants and bars has increased, and all the people who were complaining about how it would infringe on their rights have been left with their foots stuck firmly in their mouths. The only person still whining is one bumtown hotel owner who is trying to scapegoat the results of his crappy business practices on the smoking ban.
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/s....6d86a090.html

Tempe Bar Owners: Smoking Law Snuffing Out Business

07/11/2002


The Associated Press



TEMPE, Ariz. -- Tempe bar owners are red hot over the city's controversial smoking ban, saying they're upset that business has gone up in flames since the ordinance took effect May 31.


Now, bar owners want voters to approve a new and more lenient anti-smoking law.


About 25 bar owners met Wednesday on a plan of action. They're meeting next week with an attorney to draft a smoking ordinance that's similar to one approved by Mesa voters. The Mesa ordinance allows hardship exemptions and the rules are less stringent.


The owner of Mill Avenue Beer Company says business is off by 40 percent.


Lee Fairbanks led the successful Proposition 200 effort to ban smoking. He says voters won't change it. He says the same people who believe clean air is better than dirty air are still around.


also...
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/s....5275fdf8.html

and...
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/s...1.c4af4d3.html

Tempe bar, restaurant owners blame smoking ban for problems

05/11/2003


By azfamily.com Staff



More than a dozen Tempe bars and restaurants are out of business, revenue is down at many of those still operating, and owners are blaming the city's smoking ban.


Sales revenues are down about 12 percent overall.


Mayor Neil Giuliano said it's unfair to place all of the blame on the ban, which went into effect almost one year ago. He pointed out that people are spending less money in general because of the strained economy.


Embroiled in a legal war, the smoking ban is set to go back to the voters, who will decide on an amendment to repeal the portion of the law that bans smoking in bars.


The Associated Press contributed to this report.

------------------

i'm fine with it not being in restraunts and other places, but let me smoke in a fucking bar please! i want a smoke with my beer...
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Old Apr 21st, 2004, 12:43 AM       
those stories are over a year old. Usually when the bans are first put in place there is drop off and then it goes back up.
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Old Apr 21st, 2004, 12:49 AM       
yeah, i couldn't find anything recent on the tempe smoking ban. i know some of my favorite places to see shows in tempe went bankrupt after that ban kicked in...
:/
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Old Apr 21st, 2004, 01:30 AM       
My Dad, who is a bar owner, actually said he would almost rather have smoking illegalized than banned in all public places. He said when he went to California to visit his family, there would be mobs sitting outside of bars just puffing away. Fucking Stupid.
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  #85  
AChimp AChimp is offline
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Old Apr 21st, 2004, 08:51 AM       
You know what happens right after a smoking ban is put into place? All the smokers pout and say they will boycott businesses until the government backs down.

They sit at home, and yeah, business does go down a bit for a few weeks, but then it shoots right back up when they get bored and decide that going out and not smoking is better than sitting at home and smoking. The smokers also stop whining about how stupid the non-smokers are for complaining about having no where to go.

I have seen it happen first hand.

Quote:
My Dad, who is a bar owner, actually said he would almost rather have smoking illegalized than banned in all public places. He said when he went to California to visit his family, there would be mobs sitting outside of bars just puffing away. Fucking Stupid.
How is that stupid, other than the fact that people look retarded with a cigarette in their mouths? The smoke is going up, up and away and isn't hovering in an enclosed environment for everyone to breathe in over and over.

Quote:
I can't believe you all are still over-looking the business owner as being an individual with his own rights (or liberties ... whatever), one of which is to run his/her business the way they see fit. If they don't get non-smoking customers OR employees, so what. It's should be their choice.
You're overestimating the extent of your rights, and forgetting about your responsibilities. If you're a business, and you claim to be open to the public, there are rules you have to follow to remain in the best interests of everyone. This is same the reason why there's handicapped entrances.
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punkgrrrlie10 punkgrrrlie10 is offline
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Old Apr 21st, 2004, 01:08 PM       
It's also why there are FDA regulations and cleanliness standards...IF I'm a restaurant owner I couldn't be sitting in back putting out my cigarrette in people's food no matter how much I wanted to and even if it is my own private business.
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Old Apr 21st, 2004, 01:12 PM       
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Originally Posted by AChimp
The smokers also stop whining about how stupid the non-smokers are for complaining about having no where to go.

I have seen it happen first hand.
Non-Smokers have tons of places to go, so why are you complaining? I'm a non-smoker, but I recognise that most Bars are OK with smoking. I also recognise that there are tons of non-smoking bars and restaurants that are non-smoking.

I guess I'm just one of those rational people that would rather have that than the Government regulators stepping in and telling business owners what to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achimp
How is that stupid, other than the fact that people look retarded with a cigarette in their mouths? The smoke is going up, up and away and isn't hovering in an enclosed environment for everyone to breathe in over and over.


Its retarded because no matter what business you own, you don't want mobs of people outside your place of business! It looks bad.

It's bad enough that there not inside drinking while there smoking, but also the fact that there is a mob outside scares away paying customers.
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Old Apr 21st, 2004, 01:16 PM       
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Originally Posted by punkgrrrlie10
It's also why there are FDA regulations and cleanliness standards...IF I'm a restaurant owner I couldn't be sitting in back putting out my cigarrette in people's food no matter how much I wanted to and even if it is my own private business.
Thats not the point, people don't want cigarettes in there food. They want to smoke cigarettes, in a bar. Its there choice along with the business owners.

Is that so hard to understand?

You preach about "Responciblity", and that is what is exactly about, your responcibilty, not the business owners.
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Zebra 3 Zebra 3 is offline
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Old Apr 21st, 2004, 01:28 PM       
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Originally Posted by AChimp
How is that stupid, other than the fact that people look retarded with a cigarette in their mouths?
[center:c4045a0fbf]

Albert Einstein[/center:c4045a0fbf]
For the longest time, in the right mouth or hand, smoking be it pipe, cigars, or cigarettes gave the appearance of sophistication, cool, sexy,...
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kellychaos kellychaos is offline
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Old Apr 21st, 2004, 04:33 PM       
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Originally Posted by Bobo Adobo
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkgrrrlie10
It's also why there are FDA regulations and cleanliness standards...IF I'm a restaurant owner I couldn't be sitting in back putting out my cigarrette in people's food no matter how much I wanted to and even if it is my own private business.
Thats not the point, people don't want cigarettes in there food. They want to smoke cigarettes, in a bar. Its there choice along with the business owners.

Is that so hard to understand?

You preach about "Responciblity", and that is what is exactly about, your responcibilty, not the business owners.
Exactly so. How is smoking in a place enything like putting cigarettes's in someone's food? Even if the cook smokes a cigarette on his break, he is still supposed to wash his hands before going back to cooking again. If he doesn't or isn't made to by the owner then, yes, he and/or the business owner are both wrong in respect to health standards. I'm sick of all the finger pointing as to responsibility. It works both ways. If you don't like the atmosphere of a place. Then. Don't. Go. There.
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ScruU2wice ScruU2wice is offline
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Old Apr 21st, 2004, 06:27 PM       
This post is kinda out of context, becuase i made it on another board:



"Ok I see that there is alotta anti-smoking sentiment out there, so i'll play devil's advocate here, eventhough i don't smoke and i dislike many people who do.


I think it's pretty ignorant to say that people are stupid and whatnot for smoking. Just because we are overrun by media and everything telling us that smoking is bad it's not really affecting you as much as you think. I really don't like campaigns like TRUTH that take a few facts out of context and skew things for there own purposes. I think that propoganda is a cliche word, but that's exactly what truth is, no more no less. I've read tons of articles that each give a different number and effects of second hand smoke. I really don't like knowing that alotta sutff out there that i read is either not true or skewed.

Other countries and cultures don't hold Smoking at such a horrible level. If you go to europe or asia, you don't get smoldered with anti smoking laws, and it isn't looked down upon that much. My dad started smoking while he was living in yemen, he moved to germany and other places, not getting any guff about it. Even here till a few years ago, people weren't told not to smoke in bars and other places. I mean the emloyees at our store smoke out in the front right out side one there breaks, now if a customer comes up and asks them to put it out, eventhough they won't be within 3 feet of the smoker for more than a second, what should the smoker do?

I really dislike how smokers can't go anywhere to smoke. There's laws someplaces that if a neighbor is "disturbed" by a smokers fumes they can ask them not to smoke. Now if i was pissed off at my smoking neighbor for not mowing his lawn or some other frivilouse thing, I can just tell him to stop smoking in his house. It might be that exact same scenario but there probably are ways laws like these can be abused. Also the tobacco industry was almost completely crippled by one lawsuit which awarded the family of dead smoker millions of dollars because there loved one died of lung cancer caused by smoking. I don't the tobacco company is nice or anything, but i think it's more wrong to destroy an industry...

The smokers are the most discriminated against people. Law after law passes limiting there actions that annoy some people. Tax after tax accumulates to try to keep people from smoking, eventhough the people who need to will by them anyways by any means necessary. the money just goes to politcians and they know it. They can't smoke in resturaunts outta resturaunts, in virtually any building anymore and many times even on the street.

I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, seriously, just try to see it both ways and just walk away any time you want to get away from the smoke of a cigarette. I mean it's not like the smoke will be spreading exponentially through the sky and you probably wont be around a crows of 50 people strategically placed so you can't escape the smoke.

Just as a synopsis Smokers aren't stupid ignorant punk kids, People of every kind smoke, and discriminating against them and segregating them isn't the only answers, it's just the one people find the easiest..."
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