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  #401  
Dimnos Dimnos is offline
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Old May 5th, 2010, 02:23 PM       
So if it is meant as a ruse to allow insurance companies to deny claims then wouldnt the public become even more distrustful of insurance companies? Wont they then turn to the government option for its cheaper coverage even if they do deny as many claims as the insurance companies? You might as well pay less for the same shitty coverage right? All of this masterminded by the insurance companies to bring down those smug insurance companies... ?
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  #402  
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Old May 5th, 2010, 03:01 PM       
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So if it is meant as a ruse to allow insurance companies to deny claims then wouldnt the public become even more distrustful of insurance companies?
I don't know how much more distrustful people can get of insurance companies. Not much I believe.


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Wont they then turn to the government option for its cheaper coverage even if they do deny as many claims as the insurance companies? You might as well pay less for the same shitty coverage right?
In the bill it says that you will be forced to purchase products of private insurance companies. I'm sure the option for medicare and medicaid are still there but if you do not qualify for this you will have to buy private insurance.



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All of this masterminded by the insurance companies to bring down those smug insurance companies... ?
This is a bailout for insurance companies. Forcing people to pay into private insurance company plans is not bring them down. It's actually proping them up. With the assistance of the death / rationing panels they will be able to maximize the number of "customers" while being able to deny even more care than before.

Win / win situation for them.
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  #403  
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Old May 5th, 2010, 07:49 PM       
An Oligarchy is just the negative form of an aristocracy, like tyranny is the negative form of monarchy -- according to Plato. Interestingly he considered Democracy to be the negative form of Polity.

how can there even be a world wide oligarchy? The world isn't a state, or maybe it is to Coolinator he's all into that ONE GUBERMENT TAKe ovER ILLUMINATI SHIT prolly.

Also I'm pretty sure Plato considered Sparta a Polity/Democracy, but maybe it was an oligarchy at one point in history.

Plato on OLIGARCHY:
"they allow no one whose property falls below the amount fixed to have any share in the government."

yea that totally happens.

"What are the characteristics of this form of government," you might ask?
"Just think what would happen if pilots were to be chosen according to their property, and a poor man were refused permission to steer, even though he were a better pilot?"

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The Death / rationing panel is meant to reduce the cost to the private-for profit insurance companies. This will allow them a federal mandate to deny care thus saving them money. We have to remember that this is an insurance bailout in the disguise as a healthcare bill for the people. It's not meant to reduce the cost of beneficial programs like disability pensions.
Maybe you should start your own insurance company instead of assuming that no organization should ever CUT COSTS OMG. Again: Who gives a shit if these people are denied or not? There's nothing in this world that guarantees people health and good fortune.
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  #404  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old May 6th, 2010, 02:52 AM       
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I'm confused as hell about this topic, so to avoid dwelling deeper into this whole mess that american healthcare seems to be, I'll stay in the death panel discussion.

What I understood, rationing panels will decide how money will be spend. That is, they will "rank" the patients according to their needs, those in greatest need being first in line. Not getting your inquinal hernia operated might be annoying, but it sure won't be lethal.

I can't say how biased/exaggerated (apparently quite exaggerated) the article was.

I couldn't find proof of arthroscopy etc. being banned in washington, but if true, isn't this retarded? Wouldn't this lead into increase in disability pensions and therefore costs? Not to mention increased costs due to escalations of symptoms?


And once again to make it clear, my grasp of politics etc. is very loose and I'm a retard.
One could argue that the private sector has no interest about disability pensions, which is true, but the answer to why they are rationing care is because it's "genocide", an attempt to systematically eliminate the entirety of the American populace, because the "oligarchs" want to cull the poor people.

In reality the answer to why they are rationing health care is probably because the public side of things isn't going to be as well funded, and therefore not have enough "health care" to go around. You know, how health care is in every other country.



On one hand this guy Tarpley tells us that it's Rich ruling poor, and it has been for ever, but he also tells us that the "oligarchs" always try to kill off the poor population. Which is absurd since it's the working class that does, well, the work, and the ruling oligarchs would have no workforce.

Another thing; if the "oligarchs" wanted to cull the population, why would they go through such inefficient means such as rationing health care, rather than, say, a chemical bomb of some sort?


Answer me please Coolie, I watched your stupid video.
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  #405  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old May 6th, 2010, 03:05 AM       
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how can there even be a world wide oligarchy? The world isn't a state, or maybe it is to Coolinator he's all into that ONE GUBERMENT TAKe ovER ILLUMINATI SHIT prolly.
I don't know if he means oligarchs all over the world in control, or one big group of oligarchs in control of the whole world. I suppose it will go either way depending on the situation and arguments presented.

What gets me is the massively simplistic view of it. The denial of social revolutions throughout history having any change on things. It's the rich ruling the poor, oh, and also the rich wanting to kill the poor. If you broke down most ruling classes through history, then yes, it's the people who are in charge are well off, BUT why stop your investigation there? Why not delve deeper into the insanely complicated workings of social relations than Rich rules Poor (and also wants to genocide them)? Because it's easier, that's why. Because you can argue anything if you keep your base facts (PFFFTTT) vague enough.
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  #406  
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Old May 6th, 2010, 05:13 AM       
one time i heard this one conspiracy that somewhere in utah is a rock which says that the world should only have half a million people in it and this is proof the illuminati is gonna kill everyone

maybe its something like that
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  #407  
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Old May 6th, 2010, 06:21 AM       
Like... like a speaking rock?


Anyway, if they were in charge of the world's armies, tanks, planes, chemical and biological weapons and nuclear stockpiles, and they wanted to kill everyone but themselves, why wouldn't they just do it, man?
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  #408  
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Old May 6th, 2010, 06:54 AM       
its not everyone but themselves its everyone except like 480,000 slaves and 20,000 oligarchs or some shit. also its just carvings on a rock or something

i guess they are waiting for the chosen time when our alien/lizard overlords come back to claim us as a slave race.
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  #409  
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Old May 6th, 2010, 09:04 AM       
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Originally Posted by kahljorn View Post
one time i heard this one conspiracy that somewhere in utah is a rock which says that the world should only have half a million people in it and this is proof the illuminati is gonna kill everyone

maybe its something like that

You may be talking about these rocks, located in Georgia, called the "Georgia Guidestones"; they're somewhat misleadingly referred to as the "American Stonehenge" as they were erected recently.



I think it's more like a "How to rebuild society after the apocalypse" primer.
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  #410  
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Old May 6th, 2010, 09:49 AM       
That looks awesome. I haven't seen Stonehenge, but I have seen the oldest standing stones in the British Isles (possibly world???); Calanais, which were just out the back of some guy's house.
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  #411  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old May 6th, 2010, 05:38 PM       
that might be what it is Colonel Flag but illuminati conspiracy people treat it as their intention to dwindle the world's population down to 500,000 people. I've heard A LOT of people say this too.

and that is what they are i think.
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  #412  
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Old May 6th, 2010, 05:40 PM       
http://www.rense.com/general16/georgiaguidestones.htm

there's some hella coolinator stuff on here:
The Guidestones' emphasis on preserving nature anticipates the environmental movement of the 1990s

:O :O :O :O
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  #413  
Colonel Flagg Colonel Flagg is offline
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Old May 6th, 2010, 08:54 PM       
I'm hoping he actually goes and reads some of that stuff.

EDIT: Especially the part about RC Christian being Ted Turner. Ooooooh Spooky.
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  #414  
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Old May 6th, 2010, 09:02 PM       
Ya, Ya,

I know about the guide stones. They were made by some weirdos. I think they are near a highway or something too. I'm really not impressed by a bunch of rocks by a roadway.
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  #415  
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Old May 6th, 2010, 09:40 PM       
Wow. Just when you think you have someone pegged ....
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  #416  
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Old May 6th, 2010, 10:58 PM       
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Another thing; if the "oligarchs" wanted to cull the population, why would they go through such inefficient means such as rationing health care, rather than, say, a chemical bomb of some sort?
..
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  #417  
TheCoolinator TheCoolinator is offline
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Old May 6th, 2010, 11:07 PM       
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..
They'll probably do that too and just blame it on a nameless "terrorists". The health rationing is much easier because people have been trained to just blame a persons lifestyle on their disease and move on. They won't question why they were denied care. They'll just say something similar to......

"Oh, he got brain tumors cause he talked on the phone too much"

"Oh, he got cancer cause he smoked"

"Oh, she got pancreatic cancer because she drank too much soda"

They rationalize the death, are happy its not them, and move on. Kind of like when an animal gets killed. The whole flock runs away and leaves the one animal to get eaten. They don't think about it after. They just go about there business. It didn't happen to me, why should I care?
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  #418  
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Old May 6th, 2010, 11:15 PM       
Rationing health care is not easier than rounding people up and gassing them. The Nazis killed millions and millions of people in a few short years, and only stopped because they lost a war. Why not gas people instead of ration their health care and wait for them to die from disease or injury?

Furthermore, the death rates attributed to 'lack of health care'; where someone could have been saved had they gotten proper treatment, are so far behind the birth rate that it should not be even slightly taken in to consideration. In the US or any other country. The amount of people dying from preventative illness doesn't slow down the amount of people being born into this world every year. It's hardly effectively culling the population if more people are born than die.
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  #419  
kahljorn kahljorn is offline
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Old May 7th, 2010, 06:18 AM       
as far as age demographics go we are fucked anyway, from what i understand :O Soon there will be more old people and children then there will be working age adult + a large portion of the elderly population (baby boomers) will start to die. also its almost to the point that the amount of people born don't replace the amount of people that die.

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The health rationing is much easier because people have been trained to just blame a persons lifestyle on their disease and move on. They won't question why they were denied care. They'll just say something similar to......
uh, nobody deserves or has a right to care, so they weren't really denied it in that sense. Also, they aren't being denied care; the insurance company just won't cover the payment for the care that they could otherwise receive if it were necessary.
also haven't you been saying how important "preventative medicine" is i.e. eating healthy / having a good lifestyle? Maybe people should like, i dunno, be healthier? Stop eating crap? Where does personal accountability come into this?

Do you want to have to pay for people's fat reduction surgeries/liver transplants because they are alcoholics/abortions? Do you think these people should take financial precedence for their care over people who have, for example, gun shot wounds, cancer from asbestos or other diseases which were not self-inflicted? Because ultimately that is what you are saying unless you believe there is infinite money.

I guess that is THE MOSt impoRtANT QUEStiON FOR COOLIE TO ANSWer: COOLIE DO YOU THINk tHAT THERE IS INFINITE MONEY AVAILABLE To FIX EVErONE

Also you have to keep in mind that this bill is being made in AMERICA so it has to satisfy many different interests. Not just yours and a few other people. In other words, while it has to cater to idiots like you who think everything should be covered because they are stupid and don't use their brain and think money miraculously appears (Interesting that a guy who complains about the amount of money being spent also says we should have MORE COVERAGE: MORE COVERAGE=MORE MONEY=YOUBITCHING MORE. Just can't win with you) it also has to cater to persons who believe that they shouldn't have to pay for their drug addict sisters abortion, rehab, methadone treatments and std medicines.

You don't even have a clear political stance, it's like you don't even recognize that there are problems in the WORLD which society is trying to respond to
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  #420  
TheCoolinator TheCoolinator is offline
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Old May 7th, 2010, 08:47 AM       
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Rationing health care is not easier than rounding people up and gassing them. The Nazis killed millions and millions of people in a few short years, and only stopped because they lost a war. Why not gas people instead of ration their health care and wait for them to die from disease or injury?
Let me first start out by saying this is all hypothetical. I don't know if they are really trying to kill us. It certainly looks that way but who knows.

We all know now there are Death panels in the new obama healthcare bill. This has been proven time and time again and it will be focused directly at the US population.

But since we are on this speculative train let me just say that the combination of tainted food, rationing of care, toxic medicine, and environmental pollution will probably out do Stalin and Hitler in the murder department.

That's just my opinion though. You have to remember that the USA is the most sickest nation in the world. Also, the US government / Corporations can go around machine gunning people. That might actually wake people up to what is going on. They need to do it incrementally. Very slowly so no one notices.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 09:16 AM       
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We all know now there are Death panels in the new obama healthcare bill.
Uh, no. No we don't. Has anyone agreed with you yet on this point?

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You have to remember that the USA is the most sickest nation in the world.
I'm guessing some countries in Eastern Europe, Africa, South and Central America, or Southeast Asia could have something to say about that. Mexico too.

Reread your posts so they make sense, killer.
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  #422  
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Old May 7th, 2010, 09:35 AM       
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Do you want to have to pay for people's fat reduction surgeries/liver transplants because they are alcoholics/abortions?
I certainly don't want my tax dollars going towards abortions getting a new liver. FUCK THAT.

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Let me first start out by saying this is all hypothetical. I don't know if they are really trying to kill us. It certainly looks that way but who knows.
Wha? WHY DID YOU LINK THAT VIDEO THEN? WTF. You piss and rant about people not watching your videos, and then when someone DOES, you try to distance yourself from it. What was the point of the video? The guy TELLS us that the oligarchs are in charge, and have always been, and that they are aiming for a population culled of all poor people. That was what the video was about... why make us watch it if you get embarrassed when someone ACTUALLY watches it and points out how absurd it is? If the idea is one that you don't actually believe in, why whinge and cry to get us to watch it?

Are you not so sure that a "death panel" is genocide anymore?

The truth is you never actually expected anyone to watch it, you just wanted to post it to tell yourself that you proved everything you ever said. Hell, I bet you just randomly picked that video.

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Originally Posted by Cools
We all know now there are Death panels in the new obama healthcare bill. This has been proven time and time again and it will be focused directly at the US population.
That's an interesting thought. It's focused directly at the US population, ok. So the holding back of funds for health care is focused directly at the US population... does that mean that non-US citizens will get health care? I mean, if they are focusing all their non-health care on US citizens, I guess that means that everyone else can come get a slice of the pie. Actually I'm just taking the piss out of you here. I mean, who else will anything to do with US public health care be focused on if not the US population?


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Originally Posted by nutter
But since we are on this speculative train let me just say that the combination of tainted food, rationing of care, toxic medicine, and environmental pollution will probably out do Stalin and Hitler in the murder department.
According to your link Stalin and Hitler were oligarchs as well, and part of the same system. Also, what sort of time frames are we looking at? Are we talking Obama's administration? Do you believe that rationing of care, "tainted food", "toxic medicine" and pollution will kill more people during Obama's term in office than Stalin or Hitler?

Quote:
That's just my opinion though. You have to remember that the USA is the most sickest nation in the world. Also, the US government / Corporations can go around machine gunning people. That might actually wake people up to what is going on. They need to do it incrementally. Very slowly so no one notices.
How slowly is slowly? Your video says that the oligarchs have been in control at least since 340BC, how long does it take? I think they are actually doing a poor job; the population of the world is getting bigger, despite all the "tainted food". Another thing, why does it matter if people notice? The Jews noticed, and they still went to that gas chambers.
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  #423  
TheCoolinator TheCoolinator is offline
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:20 AM       
Still don't understand why everyone is so hostile. Its all out in the open. You guys make it sound like some kind of shadowy conspiracy.
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  #424  
RaNkeri RaNkeri is offline
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:23 AM       
If it's all out in the open, then why don't you move away or overthrow the government if it is trying to kill you?
Why has there been no news of death panels butchering people?
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  #425  
Zhukov Zhukov is offline
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Old May 7th, 2010, 10:27 AM       
Why did you link to a video pouting 'Aha, I think this video will answer all your questions!' and then later say 'Oh, erm, it's all speculation at the moment... it's hypothetical'?

Why?
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