What are people's thoughts on

[The Leader]

I think he just means that American industry has been devastated compared to what it was, not that it's still not a sizable force. Of of course it is Coolie so I don't know.

[Zhukov]

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

What makes globalization appealing is bought and payed for politicians who can pass laws to destroy Unions and Privately owned businesses. Not Labor Organizations. It's basic in the sense that if you allow and give incentives to corporations to off shore their entire operation to save money on labor then they will do it. It's not because Labor Organizations ask for a living wage, it's because the system has been put in place to actually by pass 1st world workers....Union or Non-Union alike.

What kind of incentives to governments give to corporations to go offshore?

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

Small potatoes multiplied by thousands upon thousands is a significant fraction of this country's GDP. It probably doesn't equal one EXXON/MOBIL, but then again, their profits dwarf all but about 20 countries in the world.

Like TheLeader said,

I'm not saying that these small time manufacturers aren't there and making a difference. As said in my previous post, it's one of the reasons why the US economy is still crawling along. That doesn't change the fact that since Free Trade / Globalization has taken hold our manufacturing base has gone from 50% of the countries economy to less than 20%.

This has shown in the dwindling pay, jobs, benefits, and incentives for people to start their own businesses.

20% is a significant fraction of the economy but as manufacturing lowers so do the standard of living of the population.

And our oil fields need to be government run. Allow those superprofits to go to the people instead of going to the CEO and Board of a directors of a cartel.

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

Our "cottage industries" provide jobs, goods and services, and drive the economy from the ground, not the other way around. We can't afford not to do more with less, and the "less" comes in the form of running an agile, or lean organization, not from cutting wages or jobs. We're as big as we've ever been, and we're hiring more individuals.

I can't speak for your business. What I can do is acknowledge the reality of the economic situation that has been in a downward spiral since the 1960's.

The US citizens standard of living has been cut by 2/3 since then and continues to drop as long as big business is at the wheel of the ship. Your business is in the crosshairs of multinational corporations and every day of the depression that goes by more people loose their homes, businesses, and jobs.

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

I'm only speaking from one company's perspective, but I can assure you the movement is pervasive across industrial boundaries and organizational frameworks.

I hope you are correct, problem is that laws and taxes are created in a way to stamp out wealth from private individuals and to place a negative incentives on starting a business, ,manufacturing or otherwise.

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

So, with all due respect, you are not speaking from a position of knowledge here. I am.

If you were speaking from a position of knowledge, we would be agreeing....which we kind of are but you still have the rose tinted glasses on. Take them off and see the rubble field around you.

Originally Posted by The Leader

I think he just means that American industry has been devastated compared to what it was

Exactly, Watson!

The games a foot!

[Zhukov]

Should say:

Originally Posted by Zhukov

What kind of incentives do governments give to corporations to go offshore?

[The Leader]

Tax breaks, for one thing.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

I think the labor is a LOT cheaper too.

[The Leader]

But that's not an incentive from government.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

DON'T YOU SASS ME.

[The Leader]

YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD

[TheCoolinator]

Originally Posted by 10,000 Volt Ghost

I think the labor is a LOT cheaper too.

I guess we can say its an incentive by proxy.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

AND I NEVER WILL BE WITH THAT ATTITUDE.

[Colonel Flagg]

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

I'm not saying that these small time manufacturers aren't there and making a difference. As said in my previous post, it's one of the reasons why the US economy is still crawling along. That doesn't change the fact that since Free Trade / Globalization has taken hold our manufacturing base has gone from 50% of the countries economy to less than 20%.

Maybe so, but most of these jobs were from industries (paper, automobiles, steel) which were poorly run for decades. Fat dumb and happy were the executives, right before they all jumped ship with their golden parachutes. Chainsaw Al Dunlap comes to mind.

And I think that our CEO would take issue with you calling our sales figures small potatoes. We're not on the scale of a Proctor or 3M, but we do very well, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

This has shown in the dwindling pay, jobs, benefits, and incentives for people to start their own businesses.

I'm not an economist, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. However, I would think the current job market gives one plenty of incentive to start their own business.

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

20% is a significant fraction of the economy but as manufacturing lowers so do the standard of living of the population.

The standard of living in the USA is not what it once was, but I would hardly call it "low" by any stretch. I'd reserve that right for countries like India or Brazil.

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

And our oil fields need to be government run. Allow those superprofits to go to the people instead of going to the CEO and Board of a directors of a cartel.

Say what? Now you're saying you want the GOVERNMENT to run the oil industry? You trust the government to do the right thing? Ummmm.....

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

I can't speak for your business. What I can do is acknowledge the reality of the economic situation that has been in a downward spiral since the 1960's.

You're right, you can't speak for our business. (We agree!) However, the economy has cycled more than once or twice since the 1960's. Both downward and upward. Unless you have some macroeconomic background of which I am unaware, I'm extremely skeptical of your "doom and gloom" take on things. It's just not that cut-and-dried, my friend.

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

The US citizens standard of living has been cut by 2/3 since then and continues to drop as long as big business is at the wheel of the ship. Your business is in the crosshairs of multinational corporations and every day of the depression that goes by more people loose their homes, businesses, and jobs.

In a phrase, "bring it on". That's essentially our corporate philosophy. We can compete with anyone from overseas, even with our labor base being domestic.

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

I hope you are correct, problem is that laws and taxes are created in a way to stamp out wealth from private individuals and to place a negative incentives on starting a business, ,manufacturing or otherwise.

No they're not. You need to understand the tax laws and how they can be read to favor small business and industry. In my view, the playing field has been leveled somewhat, and we've come ready to play.

Originally Posted by TheCoolinator

If you were speaking from a position of knowledge, we would be agreeing....which we kind of are but you still have the rose tinted glasses on. Take them off and see the rubble field around you.

I only see the rubble of your ill-conceived arguments.

And before you provide me with an onslaught of links from newsworthy op-ed pieces, blogs and youtube videos, remember that I could do the same thing from the same links that support my point. It all depends on how you construct your google search parameters.

I lived through gas-rationing, 21% inflation and government cheese. The early 70's were the worst economic time-period in my memory. Compared to that, we're climbing out of a minor pothole on the highway of life.

[Tadao]

Fucking emo poser wanna be punk political fag cry babies, always getting in the way of my generations progress.

[Colonel Flagg]

^^^ WØRD.

Yo.

[Tadao]

BTW, My 40th is in September on the 17th, Flagg is the only one invited.

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

[kahljorn]

What makes globalization appealing is bought and payed for politicians who can pass laws to destroy Unions and Privately owned businesses. Not Labor Organizations. It's basic in the sense that if you allow and give incentives to corporations to off shore their entire operation to save money on labor then they will do it. It's not because Labor Organizations ask for a living wage, it's because the system has been put in place to actually by pass 1st world workers....Union or Non-Union alike.

A system hasn't really been "put into place."

also if we didn't have unions /other standards which drive wages up and profits down than those companies wouldn't have benefited so much from moving to another country; many companies went basically bankrupt before they moved to mexico or other third world countries.

I guess we can say its an incentive by proxy.

What you mean is its just an incentive in theworld because that's just the way things are. I hate how you can turn something so simple as, "PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE A LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING" to, "THE GOVERNMENT IS IN A CONSPIRACY to give inceNTIVeS TO CORPORATIONS BY ..." BY FUCKING WHAT? TRAVELING BACK IN TIME AND SABOtOGING COUNTRIES SO THAT THEY WILL HAVe cheAP LABOR AVAILABLE? WHAT THE FUCK.

WHILE YOURE At It WHY DONt YOU BLAME THE GOVERNMENT FOR PUTTING MOSt of tHe WORlDS oil AND ReSources in the sAME SPOTS CReATING AN "INCentive' foR RICh tYpes TO gO to thoSe PLACEs AND SET UP BUSINess AND HAVe conflictS OF INtEreSt WIth the locALS. DASTARDLY. OR BLAME tHEM FOR HAVing AN ATMOSPhjere tHAT CAN BE AffectEd by our ACTIONS. YOU KNOW, ANYTHING THAT THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER BUT COULD TAKE ADVANTAge OF.

That doesn't change the fact that since Free Trade / Globalization has taken hold our manufacturing base has gone from 50% of the countries economy to less than 20%.

Well technically globalization has been around fora longtime and all of those things didn't happen. At first it even benefited us. Anyway, what's your point? That there should be standards so that industries can't move their company to another country? What if they had these choices: Move to another country or Go bankrupt.

I guess what I'm saying is that unions and other american standards give corporations an "Incentive" to move to other countries.

Again, what is your political stance? more government? less government? perfect government according to coolie w/ infinite money and god mode?

[10,000 Volt Ghost]

Originally Posted by kahljorn

Again, what is your political stance? more government? less government? perfect government according to coolie w/ infinite money and god mode?

I read everything and didn't skim. There's much better points that you made throughout. I only have time to LOL because work is busy today.

[kahljorn]

and you say that their goal is to DeStROY MIDDLE CLASSEs. But isn't it interesting that SOME of these companies that move to other countries increase the middle class of that country?

[Jeanette X]

I still believe its race based though. That's the only place we differ.

Are you referring to La Raza?

There is no racism against them.

You naive idiot. How can you be so mind-boggling stupid as to believe that Latinos aren't being hassled in this country due to race?

If you support the law, and I take it that you do, what exactly do you think that "reasonable suspicion" for stopping somebody and demanding to see their papers is? Do you really think that the cops won't use this as an excuse to hassle every brown person they see? That other minorities (such as the Chinese) won't be unfairly targeted?

That's exactly what I've been saying. It's an incediary divisive ideology which preaches a victim ideology. Many of these "Cultural Leaders" reinforce the idea that there are these boogeymen after every Hispanic and Latino. There aren't.

Sure there aren't. I'm sure you're in an excellent position to know what its like to be Latino in this country. I'm sure that you know far better than the cultural leaders and the people who listen to them about the issues facing Latinos today.

Hell, why don't we make you a cultural leader, since you know so much?

[Fathom Zero]

Originally Posted by Tadao

BTW, My 40th is in September on the 17th, Flagg is the only one invited.

What about me, you old fuck?

[Tadao]

NO, I PLAN ON DRINKING METAMUCIL AND WATCHING MATLOCK, YOUNG PEOPLE NEED NOT APPLY.

[Sam]

man I love Matlock i'm in.

[Fathom Zero]

Me too, there was an episode where someone tried to kill him by blowing a boat up. Shit was raw.

[Tadao]

Originally Posted by Colonel Flagg

I lived through gas-rationing, 21% inflation and government cheese. The early 70's were the worst economic time-period in my memory. Compared to that, we're climbing out of a minor pothole on the highway of life.

I was just reminiscing with my GF the other day about Carters gas crisis and how Reagan may or may not have kept Americans hostage until he won the election.