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kellychaos kellychaos is offline
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Old Nov 29th, 2005, 04:11 PM        Bush On Immigration
I'm too lazy to cite a website but, in essence, Bush seems to flip-flop on this issue which is unusually uncharacteristic for one so stubbornly bull-headed as he. Firstly, he wanted to strengthen the boarders after 9-11. Then, after he figured out that the boarder patrol didn't have the resources to hold the prisoners (plus, I imagine, outcry from his former constituency in Texas) he released a large percentage of illegal immigrants. Recent disasters have led him to let illegal immigrants back in to "do the job that americans won't do". Seemingly, a further laxing of the borders since the initial 9-11 noose-tightening. Now, with the recent appearance/pressure of vigilante militia groups like the Minutemen, he seems to be feeling the pressure to tighten the borders once again. What gives? Reactions to recent, sinking approval ratings. Just looking for insight. :/
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Old Nov 29th, 2005, 05:38 PM       
He's actually been pretty consistent in his stance. He's a Texan that's in favor of loosening border and immigration policy. A very libertarian position, in fact... one which with I agree for the most part. Some Texans and other such unrealistic and short-sighted Americans believe we should or could wall off our country to immigrants because brown people in general just come here to steal our JAWBS and get checks from the government without paying taxes. Oh, and have a bunch of babies... On many levels, this whole concept is retarded and just plain racist. Unfortunately, the number of people in our burgeoning Democracy that are truly so ignorant of how things work so as to believe in these simplstic ideas to such a degree as to grab guns and run out into the desert to defend their homeland from wetbacks is large enough to draw serious attention from any elected official... even a president committed to an opposite goal.

I guess it's just lucky for all the rest of us that immigration wasn't such a tremendous problem back when our own ancestors came here looking for jobs and less repressive government... like when we needed Chinamen to build our railroads or Irishmen to take civil service jobs and get us booze or Pakistanis to take over the Stop-n-Rob and Hotel industries or Blacks to pick cotton... well, that wasn't really immigration... or white folks to kill all the indigenous brown folks off... you get the picture.

I say a top-heavy welfare state with no controls or basis in logic is the problem, not immigration. With modern technology, immigration should be a breeze, not more of a red-tape nightmare than ever. Let em come, and let em all go on welfare as far as I care. Let the system break altogether. It needs to die anyway. If we're going to have a safety net, fine. It should not be so high as to function as a safety couch lazy fucks can lay on all day instead of getting a job.

That's my personalized version of the ideological basics behind one form of libertarian-slash-right wing immigration policy. That's pretty close to Bush's motivation behind what Max is calling his "Amnesty Plan." Bush floated what he calls his "Guest Worker" idea early on, and the GOP HATED it. They are still bitching about it, and Dems don't like it either, (because it's not their amnesty plan) so he's not talking about it unless he has to.

Immigration has stayed in the news since, though, because it's now considered to be a Homeland Security issue. There are currently between 13 and 20 million (probably more) illegals in this country, and finding the 50 to 100 suspected terrorists that are also brown and likely hiding among the other brown people that all look alike has proven problematic. Bush has re-branded his Guest Worker plan now as a Homeland Security concept but making all the illegals legal as long as they are employed, narrowing the field down to a crowd more easy to strip search and call bad names, has been met with the GOP rebuttal that immigrants typically vote Democrat and we should just round em all up and return them to whence they came via cannon or trebuchet.

Democrats generally just stand and watch this and laugh like hell, except for the times they sneak through some legislation making it legal for dead family pets to vote for Kennedys. It's been a great diversion for them, really, and a nice way to illustrate in microcosm just why the Republicans, who basically own government now, have been so ineffectual at actually governing anything.

Some people have taken the tack that we could strengthen our borders with existing resources if they weren't needlessly deployed (hint hint) in a war of choice on the other side of the planet... This is less an immigration stance than it is an anti-war or anti-Bush stance.

Again, I say open the borders USING EFFICIENT HIGH TECH ID AND TRACKING TECHNIQUES, issue IDs and shoot all the bad people while letting the nanny state reap what it has sewn and lie in the bed it made for itself... pretty much just let the chips fall where they may and whatnot.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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KevinTheOmnivore KevinTheOmnivore is offline
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Old Nov 29th, 2005, 06:15 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preechr
I guess it's just lucky for all the rest of us that immigration wasn't such a tremendous problem back when our own ancestors came here looking for jobs and less repressive government... like when we needed Chinamen to build our railroads or Irishmen to take civil service jobs and get us booze or Pakistanis to take over the Stop-n-Rob and Hotel industries or Blacks to pick cotton... well, that wasn't really immigration... or white folks to kill all the indigenous brown folks off... you get the picture.
This is a great point, however I think the potential for terrorist attack is a valid one. Eventually, one of these inept fuckers will figure out how to get a bomb across the Mexican-American border, and at least take out El Paso. :/



Quote:
Again, I say open the borders USING EFFICIENT HIGH TECH ID AND TRACKING TECHNIQUES, issue IDs and shoot all the bad people while letting the nanny state reap what it has sewn and lie in the bed it made for itself... pretty much just let the chips fall where they may and whatnot.
Uh huh....
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ziggytrix ziggytrix is offline
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Old Nov 29th, 2005, 06:55 PM       
let the ID chips fall where they may! :O

my biggest fear about high tech tracking is the very likely criminal response of dismembering the innocent to harvest their IDs.
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Preechr Preechr is offline
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Old Nov 29th, 2005, 06:58 PM       
The liberty versus security balance is something that has always been and will always be argued. Since I believe losing liberty is ALWAYS a slippery slope best avoided at all costs, I would say I'd rather live without El Paso if that's what it takes.

Then, I would look at the peice of shit politician that tried to use that arguement to persuade me that I had to make a choice between giving him my liberties and allowing his ineptitude as a leader to let El Paso get blown up and... well, probably just not vote for him ever again and stuff.

They always pull that same crap. Once you give up some of your rights for a proclaimed emergency, you will NEVER get them back, no matter what they promise. If I was just a bit more paranoid about government than I am, I would be scared shitless of the concept of the "permanent" wars we've undertaken. Wars are the ultimate emergency.
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mburbank~ Yes, okay, fine, I do know what you meant, but why is it not possible for you to get through a paragraph without making all the words cry?

How can someone who obviously thinks so much of their ideas have so little respect for expressing them? How can someone who so yearns to be taken seriously make so little effort?!
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kellychaos kellychaos is offline
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Old Nov 30th, 2005, 03:45 PM       
Take no offense. It just seemed that the increase in border control agents as well as their resources was successful against illegal immigrants and then they got their hands tied after seizures were made. I live in a canadian border town and the releases are publicized extensively in our local paper ... mostly asians entering via Canada. I'm not against work visas and legitimate applications for citizenship. I just don't see our present system working even though it has the potential with the correct modifications.
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