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sspadowsky sspadowsky is offline
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Old Oct 27th, 2003, 06:29 PM        Great work in the war on terror!
I am in awe. Has anyone else heard about this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

Hijack 'suspects' alive and well


Waleed Al Shehri left the US a year ago, he says

Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.

The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt.

Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.

Hijacking suspects
Flight 175: Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi
Flight 11: Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz Alomari and Satam Al Suqami
Flight 77: Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Hani Hanjour
Flight 93: Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi
Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.

He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.

He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Dayton Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring.

But, he says, he left the United States in September last year, became a pilot with Saudi Arabian airlines and is currently on a further training course in Morocco.

Mistaken identity


Abdulaziz Al Omari, another of the Flight 11 hijack suspects, has also been quoted in Arab news reports.


Abdelaziz Al Omari 'lost his passport in Denver'

He says he is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and that he lost his passport while studying in Denver.

Another man with exactly the same name surfaced on the pages of the English-language Arab News.

The second Abdulaziz Al Omari is a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines, the report says.

Meanwhile, Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Alghamdi.


Khalid Al-Midhar may also be alive


He was listed by the FBI as a hijacker in the United flight that crashed in Pennsylvania.

And there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive.

FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt.
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Old Oct 27th, 2003, 06:39 PM       
I had not heard about this.

I'm not really sure what to make of it, accept that one would think in two years time we might have come to some deffinitive idea of who the hijackers were. It seems kind of frightening in terms of our current intelligence that two years after the fact we can't put together what happened.

It kind of makes me wish we hadn't pulled so many intel resources of Al Quaeda and put them on Iraq.
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Old Oct 27th, 2003, 11:43 PM       
All cooks look alike to me.

I actually laughed so hard I cried reading this.
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Old Oct 28th, 2003, 03:14 AM       
Is this being reported anywhere besides the BBC?

Too many shocking stories pop up from supposedly credible news agencies, and the other supposedly credible media outlets never follow up to confirm the details. Hard to pick out the burried stories from the bullshit.

I can tell you that the CIA turned down hundreds of applicants after 9/11 from fluent Arabic speaking folks because they were Jewish.
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Old Oct 28th, 2003, 10:09 AM       
oops, the fbi isnt sure who carried out the attacks.. but they released the list of names anyway.

I like how the pilots were barely passing, some even failing thier pilot training yet they were able to pull off the attacks.. we're supposed to believe that inexperienced pilots hit all thier targets dead on, it's bullshit.

if it werent bullcrap why would the bush administration stifle every investigation into the attacks??
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Old Oct 28th, 2003, 11:56 PM       
Cuz the US took part in the planning of the 9-11 attacks. Doesn't it look so obvious to you people?!
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Old Oct 29th, 2003, 12:22 AM       
I still can't find a second news source to back this up.
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Old Oct 29th, 2003, 09:28 AM       
Yeah, I haven't seen anything else on it either, which disappoints me. But it seems odd that they would say this:

Quote:
FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt.
I'll see if I can find anything else on this.
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Old Oct 29th, 2003, 11:16 AM       
Here was the poop on this two years ago:


THE INVESTIGATION

Hijackers may have taken Saudi identities

By Kevin Cullen and Anthony Shadid, Globe Staff, 9/15/2001

Evidence surfaced yesterday that some of the suicide hijackers who commandeered airliners originating in Boston, Washington, and Newark on Tuesday may have used aliases and adopted the identities of legitimate Saudi Arabian pilots to gain entry to the United States and access to the flight training they needed to carry out their attacks.


I'm looking for any indication that this ever chnaged, and not finding it. Could it be the press, far from having a liberal bias, are in fact a pack of fat handfed lap dogs too lazy to do much more than cut and paste the text of their briefings?
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Old Oct 29th, 2003, 02:19 PM        Same old
Come on now, you can't have it both ways. One minute half of you want to label Bush and his administration the most mindless, incompetent retards to ever hold their positions, the next you're accussing them of pulling off the most amazingly well planned conspiracy in the history of manking. Which is it? Is Dubya a moron, or the leader of the greatest team of scam artists ever. You can't have both.

Anyway, I'm willing to bet that the identity issue will always be a problem. Because the issuance of visas and ids in some countries are not well regulated, I doubt its very easy to geniunely track what the real names of these people are. I have very limited access to counter-intelligence and anti-terorrism, but I have enough to know that one of the biggest problems they face in these types of cases is determining identities.

Think of it this way. Identity theft in this country is a problem. In spite of having relatively well regulated systems to prevent it, people are still able to access i.d. cards, ssns etc and "steal" another's identity. Do you suppose those same safeguards are in place in places like Yemen? They are not. It would not be unreasonable to think that a person who was inclined to carry out an attack like 9-11 would have planned enough to at least muddle the trail of thier true identity.

I agree that the FBI should have made more light of the fact that they couldn't be certain of the names they went with. But as far as citing this as some kind of blatant proof that this was an obvious conspiracy, well, that's a little silly.
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Old Oct 29th, 2003, 02:28 PM       
Yeah but the intitial reports were sparked by the guy in Egypt who was claiming his son was still alive in Saudi Arabia and couldn't have been a hijacker.... but the son himself never turned up.

The problem with stories coming out of the middle east is how well sympathisers, and agents working with terrorist groups have infiltrated the media. It's hard to come up with a burried "scoop" in places where there is no free press.

The Saudi Arabian government are desperate to get the heat off them. They have no problem calling press conferences. So why wouldn't they have tons of cameras in front of Waleed Al Shehri by now. They're seriously sweating the 9/11 lawsuits coming into play.

So logically... if your picture was being distributed world wide as a dead hijacker, and terrorist associated with Al Qaeda... how can you get a visa from Morroco to Saudi Arabia so that you can continue to work with airplanes in some capacity...and it takes two years for the BBC (who have been caught publishing fictional stories about the region) to uncover that he's alive...??? Something's wrong.
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Old Oct 29th, 2003, 03:21 PM       
GA; I think you can have 31 different flavors with this administration, let alone both ways.

Bush: Dumb, credlous, spiteful.
Chenney: Very Smart, amoral, covert.
Rumsfeld: Very smart, Arrogant, Egomaniacal.
Powell: Smart, dogged, inefectual.
Rice: Smart, Dogged, Machiavelian.

The mathematical combinations are mind boggling.
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Old Oct 29th, 2003, 03:36 PM        No dispute
Max,
Im not disputing the fact that the administration is made up of many different personalities. Every administration is.

What I am getting at is that to pull off a conspiracy of the magnitude that some are suggesting here, it would require a tremmendous amount of cohesion, cunning, and commitment. To believe that the amount of people that would have been required to pull of some kind of 9/11 conspiracy to the degree that folks like Ranxer would like everyone to subscribe to is beyond my capabilities. It completely defies every common sense test imaginable.

The fact that the identities of who exactly the hijackers were is still not clear is hardly proof that Bush and Co. were in on this from the start in my opinion.
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Old Oct 29th, 2003, 04:07 PM       
I couldn't agree more with your speciffic complaint. I'm not very big on massive government conspiracies. The require too much competence from too many people.

My point is merely that you can have it both ways, ie. really dumb and really smart at the same time.

It was really dumb for Bush to believe the speciffics on what Cheney told him about Iraqs nuclear capacity. It is really dumb of Bush to accept the argument "Well, we still know it, it was just the proof we put forward was forgery about something we know to be true but can't prove."

It is really smart of Chenney to keep that perception alive long after it's been proven false. All he has to do is keep dropping it into interviews and a huge percentage of voters think it's true.

The issue of Iraqi nukes (and I think Iraqi WMD in general) is stupidity, credulousness, arrogance, etc. on W's part and a small scale conspiracy on Chenney and Rumsfelds parts, with grudging cooperation from Rice and Powell. This is not to say they didn'tg believe it, just tht they knew they didn't have any solid intelligence and were so sure they get some once we took over Iraq they were happy to pretend we did.

Like I say. Small scale. Especially where intelligenc is highly classified and can be witheld vitually orever, you only need a handful of people on board, and a slightly larger number willing to look the other way or not complain to the press. Both ways at once. Smart and stupid. Bumbling and Coniving. Like Iran Contra and the Monica/dress/purgery/impeachment saga, and watergate and the Gukf of Tonkin.
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Old Oct 29th, 2003, 05:35 PM       
Mistaken identity and misguided intelligence mistakes don't equal a conspiracy. If you believe these are loose threads of a sloppy orchestrated situation, it still doesn't add credibility to this report.

You really have to wrap your head around this to think this proves a conspiracy. Why would Bush and Co. allow this guy to run free through the Middle East? Why would they steal someones idenity rather then just create a fictional one altogether? Why would the Saudi government who would have to be in cohoots allow this guy to speak openly in the press about what happened? I could probably ask another fifty questions like these. Anything's possible...sure... but what's really possible...and what's most likely the case ... is that when BBC reports on the middle east, it's only true if you want to believe it.
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Old Oct 30th, 2003, 01:59 PM       
Okay, so I'll admit I'm really tired today, but I just read through the BBC report again. Where does it imply a conspiracy? I think it implies poor intelligence and an unwillingness to contradict or admit poor intelligence. I don't see where it says anything about a conspiracy.
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Old Oct 30th, 2003, 04:21 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Why would the Saudi government who would have to be in cohoots allow this guy to speak openly in the press about what happened?
I'm not really buying the conspiracy but, on the other hand, I would never sell the Saudis short on audacity. When you have the right will, resources, and attitude, then you probably can envision that you can get away with anything. After all, they have managed to cover up quite a bit in the past ... and the U.S. government has been quite a reliable enabler towards that end in the past.
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Old Oct 30th, 2003, 08:17 PM       
Sure, but the Saudi's are trying real hard to lay low and distance themselves from 9/11 in any way. They hired a PR company to change the American perception of their involvement, and there's been recent accusations of them buying off witnesses for the civil suit against them... I have a hard time believing they wouldn't want to distance themselves from this guy... but yeah, they're pretty bold, and the Royal Family aren't the most unified bunch.
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Old Oct 31st, 2003, 08:08 PM       
What if the whole conspiracy was set up like 10 or 15 years ago before bush came in to power, all so when he did [insert conspiracy theory here]. Do you seem to think that this plan was played out, on either side of the equation, off a drinking binge one day?

'Hey guys, let's go fly some planes into the World Trade Center', "OKAY!!!"

No, it was likely planned out for a long, long time. So despite stupidity and the like, there was plenty of time to find smart people to plan it.

Besides, it's not THAT cunning to have someone fly a plane into a building. If someone in our government was responsible it would be fairly simple, it's not like there is an army barracks on plane. Smuggling a gun on board would not be difficult. Shooting stupid hos would not be hard(unless they were blind).
As to flying a plane into a GIGANTIC building, that would not take too much difficulty even if it was done manually(again, unless they were blind). It is just as easy to presume they somehow had some autopilot program shit on it. Computers are fun like that.
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Old Nov 1st, 2003, 11:03 AM       
FLORIDA BALLOT (RIGGED?) + 9-11 (US INVOLVED?) + WAR ON TERRORISM (IMAGES OF BOMBING STAGED?) + REBUILDING IRAQ (HOSTILE TAKEOVER?) = OIL.

yep sounds like a plan to me! but then, i don't entirely beliveve my own conspiracy theory because i have absolutely nothing to back it up.
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Old Nov 1st, 2003, 12:06 PM       
The planes were FRENCH. That's right, FRENCH.
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