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  #26  
Abcdxxxx Abcdxxxx is offline
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Old Sep 1st, 2006, 10:10 PM       
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Originally Posted by J. Tithonus Pednaud
The Torah states that it is not a matter of choice; rather it is God’s command. You could convert to Christianity, become Buddhist or even become anit-semite - you will be Jewish and counted amoung them by the religious leaders.
unless you worship a golden calf or something.

read the torah before you tell us what it says.
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  #27  
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 12:08 AM       
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Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Pretty much everyone here accept for Geggy and Ziggy. Burbank's a convert, no matter he says. It's gonna be really hard to round us all up.
actually, i'm like 1/32 jewish on my dad's side if that means anything. which it doesn't. so never mind.
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  #28  
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 12:25 AM       
Nope, neither did this apparently....

Quote:
From: ziggytrix
To: Abcdxxxx
Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 8:37 pm
Subject: Fuck you and good day
Quote:
"You don't have the ability to prove a single counter argument, but you're dying to disagree anyway. Spare us."

You don't have the ability to comprehend a counter argument that doesn't jive with your viewpoint, so I will spare you further "debate" in the Politics forum.

Have a nice fucking life.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 12:28 AM       
i didn't come here for an argument :P
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  #30  
Jeanette X Jeanette X is offline
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 12:54 AM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Tithonus Pednaud
Judaism is strange in that it is based primarily on blood and not belief.
Judaism is open to any sincere convert, you utter fucking moron.

And yes, I'm a Jew and this had better not turn into another Israel debate thread.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 03:38 AM       
'tis true. some of our greatest sages happened to also have been converts. It's not the Orthodoxy sponsoring the studies in genetics. It's not like they test you when you walk into a Synagogue, or hand out membership cards demanding proof of a certain percentage bloodline.
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  #32  
J. Tithonus Pednaud J. Tithonus Pednaud is offline
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 12:26 PM       
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Originally Posted by Jeanette X
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Tithonus Pednaud
Judaism is strange in that it is based primarily on blood and not belief.
Judaism is open to any sincere convert, you utter fucking moron.

And yes, I'm a Jew and this had better not turn into another Israel debate thread.
I didn't say it wasn't, you fucking douche.

What I said - if your read the rest of the post - was according to the Torah, basically 'once a Jew always a Jew' according to bloodline. Any Rabbi will tell you the same thing. Though variables between the faiths (Orthodox, Conservative, etc) vary in requirments - usually if your mother is Jewish (Judaism's law of matrilineal descent) then you are automatically too, though a Reconstructionist rabbi would say either parent. This is all in The Talmud as well as the Torah.

Of course it's open to any convert, it is a religion - and one of the better ones for that matter.

And I have read the Torah, as well as Book of Haftaroth.

I didn't say once during my post that you had to be of Jewish blood to practice Judaism.

READ, you moron, before jumping on someone.
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  #33  
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 01:21 PM       
if you throw in some wit you will be a winner
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 01:23 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Tithonus Pednaud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanette X
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Tithonus Pednaud
Judaism is strange in that it is based primarily on blood and not belief.
Judaism is open to any sincere convert, you utter fucking moron.

And yes, I'm a Jew and this had better not turn into another Israel debate thread.
Of course it's open to any convert, it is a religion - and one of the better ones for that matter.

And I have read the Torah, as well as Book of Haftaroth.

I didn't say once during my post that you had to be of Jewish blood to practice Judaism.

READ, you moron, before jumping on someone.
You said that it was based PRIMARILY on blood and NOT belief, douchie mcfucktard.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 01:27 PM       
I think I feel a conflict coming on
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 01:34 PM       
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Originally Posted by J. Tithonus Pednaud
What I said - if your read the rest of the post - was according to the Torah, basically 'once a Jew always a Jew' according to bloodline......

And I have read the Torah, as well as Book of Haftaroth.
Yeah but the picture version translated for some Later Day Saints probably isn't the most accurate edition.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 01:42 PM       
Do Jewish people get angry? I know they get verklempt :/
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  #38  
J. Tithonus Pednaud J. Tithonus Pednaud is offline
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 02:04 PM       
Quote:
I didn't say once during my post that you had to be of Jewish blood to practice Judaism.

READ, you moron, before jumping on someone.

You said that it was based PRIMARILY on blood and NOT belief, douchie mcfucktard.
And?

Last I checked, PRIMARILY does't mean ONLY. It in no way excludes the idea of converts.

But fine I will conceed, because 'douchie mcfucktard' made me laugh out loud. Perhaps it wasn't the best word to use. But what would you suggest I use, ummm, Twaty MacDouchenfuck?

I thought primary fit. It is a big part of the religion and, if you view the Jewish just as a race ( I was referring to both in my original text), I would say bloodline IS primary.

Know of any asians who converted to caucasian?

But hey, if that is the only bone choking you 'll, take that out. You agree with the rest then?

What was your point again?

EDIT

Whoa, you know, in re-reading that first line I can see how things could be missunderstood. I should not have started with the word 'Judaism' as I was actually intending to refer to both the religion and the race. Judaism is, of course, the religion...and no, that is not based primarily on blood though it does sometimes have a role.

My bad, and a well deserved burn.
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  #39  
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 02:06 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Tithonus Pednaud
What I said - if your read the rest of the post - was according to the Torah, basically 'once a Jew always a Jew' according to bloodline......

And I have read the Torah, as well as Book of Haftaroth.
Yeah but the picture version translated for some Later Day Saints probably isn't the most accurate edition.
True, but I did color within the lines, so that should count for something. And the pop-up sections were enlightening.

I have no fixed religion, though I do have a degree in Theology. Which is why I own a couple of Torahs - one a horrible Greek translation.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 02:45 PM       
Such qualifications. You should teach Sunday school. The Jews could use more goyim like you telling us what the Torah says.

p.s. I doubt you own a Torah - you own some translations.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 02:56 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Tithonus Pednaud
Quote:
I didn't say once during my post that you had to be of Jewish blood to practice Judaism.

READ, you moron, before jumping on someone.

You said that it was based PRIMARILY on blood and NOT belief, douchie mcfucktard.
And?

Last I checked, PRIMARILY does't mean ONLY. It in no way excludes the idea of converts.

I thought primary fit. It is a big part of the religion and, if you view the Jewish just as a race ( I was referring to both in my original text), I would say bloodline IS primary.

Bloodline isn't anywhere near as important as you think it is. It matters to some of the more orthodox, but to most mainstream Jews, it doesn't really matter for shit, unless its for something like Israeli citizenship. It certainly is not the "primary" qualification to be a member of the Jewish religion.

Quote:
Know of any asians who converted to caucasian?
What's that supposed to mean? That converting to Judaism is as impossible as an Asian converting to Caucasian? What kind of analogy are you trying to draw here?

You can be ethnically Jewish without being religiously Jewish, and vice-versa. The two are often intertwined, but you don't have to be one to be the other.
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  #42  
J. Tithonus Pednaud J. Tithonus Pednaud is offline
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 03:19 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
Such qualifications. You should teach Sunday school. The Jews could use more goyim like you telling us what the Torah says.

p.s. I doubt you own a Torah - you own some translations.
Yes, I do own a Hebrew Torah, inherited from a Jewish uncle, and a Greek translated version. But no, I have never read the entire Torah in the original Hebrew and as I conceeded the Greek version is considered a very bad traslation done for Ptolemy. Though, that is besides the point. I am not breaking any ground here nor do I claim to be an expert. What I have stated about the bloodline concepts of being Jewish is common stuff.

I am not trying to tell you what the Torah says, which is why I have not quoted from it. I am sure you know what is says.

But I believe what I have stated is pretty well common knowledge. None of it revolutionary. Bloodlines, the Torah and concept of divine imperative covers all that was said here. Is there something in particular rubbing you the wrong way, or is it just the idea of a goyim on your turf enough?
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 03:20 PM       
You can be an Asian Jew - by bloodline or by conversion.

So Jews are more of an ethnicity then a race, and again, it's not the Rebbenute doing the genetic studies to prove that one way or another. The Lubavitchers never turn anyone away, Jewish or otherwise, and they're the largest movement of Hadisim in the world right now.

It's the Ultra-Orthodox who have a monopoly on conversions recognized for Israeli citizenship, but the restrictions are not that different from other nations like Jordan. The acceptance of conversions is a denominational thing, and depends on region, sect, etc. without consistancy over history. The only time it becomes an issue for some Rabbis is when you want to get married, have a bris, get a divorce, make up a minyon at a synagogue.
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  #44  
J. Tithonus Pednaud J. Tithonus Pednaud is offline
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 03:34 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanette X
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Tithonus Pednaud
Quote:
I didn't say once during my post that you had to be of Jewish blood to practice Judaism.

READ, you moron, before jumping on someone.

You said that it was based PRIMARILY on blood and NOT belief, douchie mcfucktard.
And?

Last I checked, PRIMARILY does't mean ONLY. It in no way excludes the idea of converts.

I thought primary fit. It is a big part of the religion and, if you view the Jewish just as a race ( I was referring to both in my original text), I would say bloodline IS primary.

Bloodline isn't anywhere near as important as you think it is. It matters to some of the more orthodox, but to most mainstream Jews, it doesn't really matter for shit, unless its for something like Israeli citizenship. It certainly is not the "primary" qualification to be a member of the Jewish religion.

Quote:
Know of any asians who converted to caucasian?
What's that supposed to mean? That converting to Judaism is as impossible as an Asian converting to Caucasian? What kind of analogy are you trying to draw here?

You can be ethnically Jewish without being religiously Jewish, and vice-versa. The two are often intertwined, but you don't have to be one to be the other.
Okay, again and the last time simply because I know we are on the same page here but things are being lost in the translation. We are so close to an understanding.

One, I agree bloodline is not important to being Jewish (faith). Not a bit. What I was saying is it is possible to be born Jewish in both race and faith (Here is a letter from someone asking if they need to convert).

http://www.schechter.edu/askrabbi/co...er_adopted.htm

Two, the point about asian and caucasian was more of a joke. I was refering to Jewish as a race and not a religion. In which case blood would definetly be a primary requirment. I am caucasian because my father and mother are, for example.

And I agree 100% with your final statement as well. In Orthodox Judiasm, the two are indeed very much intertwined.
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  #45  
J. Tithonus Pednaud J. Tithonus Pednaud is offline
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 03:39 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx
You can be an Asian Jew - by bloodline or by conversion.

So Jews are more of an ethnicity then a race, and again, it's not the Rebbenute doing the genetic studies to prove that one way or another. The Lubavitchers never turn anyone away, Jewish or otherwise, and they're the largest movement of Hadisim in the world right now.

It's the Ultra-Orthodox who have a monopoly on conversions recognized for Israeli citizenship, but the restrictions are not that different from other nations like Jordan. The acceptance of conversions is a denominational thing, and depends on region, sect, etc. without consistancy over history. The only time it becomes an issue for some Rabbis is when you want to get married, have a bris, get a divorce, make up a minyon at a synagogue.
Anyone can be Jewish.

I agree with all of that 100% as well.

As with any religion. The old ways die hard only only come up sporatically - but still come up.
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  #46  
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 03:53 PM       
Titus, you don't have to apologize to anyone here. They're just looking to yell at something and you happen to be in the way.
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 03:54 PM       
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Tithonus Pednaud
Know of any asians who converted to caucasian?
There's that kid from Super Troopers...
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  #48  
J. Tithonus Pednaud J. Tithonus Pednaud is offline
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 04:02 PM       
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Originally Posted by Chojin
Titus, you don't have to apologize to anyone here. They're just looking to yell at something and you happen to be in the way.
Hey, I apologize when I am in the wrong and my intial post on this subject was a poorly worded throw away. While basically a correct observation - that according to Orthodox rules one can be born Jewish in both race and religion - had I chosen my words carefully it would not have been an issue.

I got burned for good reason and I'll bend over and take it like a man.
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  #49  
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 04:06 PM       
There is adifference between hebrew, and jew.

Hebrews can be buddhist christian or whatever although they are predominantly jew or atheist.

Asians/ blacks/ whites CAN convert to judaism and be a full memember of that religion, even Moses's father in law converted to judiasm, and Rahab the Harlot was a Canaanite who converted and was in the lineage of king David.

An asian can't become hebrew, but he CAN become a practicer and mmeber of the judiasm.

also i love the term douchie mcfuctard and request permission to use it on another verklemfpt forum.
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  #50  
J. Tithonus Pednaud J. Tithonus Pednaud is offline
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Old Sep 2nd, 2006, 04:23 PM       
I don't know, I wanted to get some douchie mcfuctard t-shirts or something. Maybe 'I'm with douchie mcfuctard' ones as well.

It appears comedian David Cross made the following observation:

I'm an atheist, I don't believe in God, so therefore I would think that I can't be Jewish, basically because ... Judaism is predicated on a belief in God. So if I don't believe in God I can't be Jewish right? But... no... you can't. Judaism is the only religion that does this, it came up with this bullshit, arbitrary rule, that if your mother's Jewish, then you're Jewish. So it doesn't matter what I believe in, just Jew for life.
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