Muslim "fury" at speech by Pope

[ziggytrix]

Originally Posted by ScruU2wice

I'm pretty sure we have this same argument everytime Islam and Muslim are mentioned on this board.

Let's just settle the score this one time and just lay down that Islam is an evil and violent religion that has no hope of accomplishing anything but horrible horrible evil. and violence. And that doesn't just stop at a few muslims, the pacifist muslims are just as bad sitting on their asses. Oh yeah and there's nothing you can do about it, because Islam is inherently evil I mean there are literally hundreds of out of context Koranic quotes to back it up. Umm what else am I forgetting? oh yeah cartoons of Prophet Mohammad are hilarious, not for their comical value, but just because they're so edgy, and any Muslim offended at them are flag burning rock throwing Jihadis. Ummm let's see, yeah all muslims should be held under suspicion, for something.

I think we should just establish these axioms before we even start a discussion about islam.

That should be sticked as part of the rules for this forum.

[Abcdxxxx]

Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.

Geggy does have a clue....

ABC-

Your arguments are full of assumptions. You don't know where he got his figures, yet you don't support your argument at all by telling me why his figures are wrong. You assumed it came froma Palestinian source - how would you know?

Okay so you're validating Geggy and resorting to the "you can't prove it you weren't there" argument. Glad I bothered now. Fuzzbot, people were there, like the International Red Cross who used these figures before eventually denouncing them (June 25, 1982, Washington Post). Arafat's brother was in charge of the Red Crescent who issued these figures. If you want to dispute it, respond with something besides disbelief. One doesn't assume truths, just as one doesn't assume fallacies - one learns them. I pointed out factual errors in his Op-ed piece that you've mistaken for investigative journalism. I hope you can break through that cultural barrier of yours to understand that.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure an Israeli guy who has lived in Israel all his life, teaches at one of the best Israeli universities has way more to say than just some dumb American Jew. The guy actually lived through it, read his other articles to find out more. Hilarious that you'd dismiss him as a conspiracy theorist

Do you even know what a conspiracy theoriest is? How about a Holocaust denier? See Geggy in the dictionary. I never called your "Israeli guy" a conspiracist, I called him wrong, pointing out why, and accused him of embracing disinformation as many Israeli leftists are prone to do because it fits their agenda. The best you can do is say he's "lived in Israel all his life" - even THAT'S not true.

So h'bout we get this conversation back on track, because your problem still isn't the Zionists, and 49.9% of mid-east Arabs support Bin laden, according to last weeks Al-Jazeera poll. http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools
And when UK Muslims were polled, 24% said the bus bombings were justified, and 1/3 of all polled wanted to live under Sharia laws in Britain. http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1145782006

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.

lolz.

Yeah, that's totally what's gonna happen!

I think you're mistaking what's in the news with reality. There's a difference.

Italian nun shot dead in Somalia

Somali Islamists urge Muslims to slay Pope

Churches firebombed as Muslims demand further apology


Iran seminaries shut in protest at Pope remarks

Maybe if we just ignore it, it will all go away, right Fuzzy? Like you said, the Pope already apologized. What more should he do?

[Preechr]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060917/...u/pope_muslims

Originally Posted by Kevin

It'll be the Christians living in the Middle East who have their churches bombed and their neighborhoods terrorized

Originally Posted by news

Earlier Sunday in the West Bank, two churches were set on fire as anger over the pope's comments grew throughout the Palestinian territories.

In the town of Tulkarem, a 170-year-old stone church was torched before dawn and its interior was destroyed, Christian officials said. In the village of Tubas, a small church was attacked with firebombs and partially burned, Christians said. Neither church is Catholic, the officials said.

Palestinian Muslims hurled firebombs and opened fire at five churches in the West Bank and Gaza Strip Saturday to protest the Pope's comments, sparking concerns of a rift between Palestinian Muslims and Christians.

...

Originally Posted by news

"At this time I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims," the pope said Sunday.

Muslim leaders in the Mideast gave mixed reactions to the pontiff's apology.

Mahmoud Ashour, the whiny and petulant former deputy of Cairo's Al-Azhar Mosque, the Sunni Arab world's most powerful institution, told Al-Arabiya TV immediately after the pope's speech that, "It is not enough. He should apologize because he insulted the beliefs of Islam. He must apologize in a frank way and say he made a mistake."

Mohammed al-Nujeimi, a bitchy little professor with a brand new handbag at the Institute of Judicial and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, also criticized the pope's statement while being gay.

"The pope does not want to apologize. He is evading apology and what he said today is a repetition of his previous statement," he told Al-Arabiya TV.

The Vatican released a statement Saturday saying the pope "sincerely regrets" that Muslims were offended, but stopped short of the apology demanded by many Muslim leaders.

...

Originally Posted by news

But the leader of Egypt's largest Islamic political group, the Muslim Brotherhood, said that "while anger over the Pope's remarks is necessary, it shouldn't last for long."

"While he is the head of the Catholic Church in the world, many Europeans are not following (the church) so what he said won't influence them. Our relations with Christians should remain good, civilized and cooperative," Mohammed Mahdi Akef told The Associated Press.

Now, does that last bit infer that were the pope more influential his words would have warranted violence?

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

WTF?

The Pope calls some islaamic teachings inhuman and violent. (some of them are)

In response some muslims (and i use the term loosely) respond with INHUMAN VIOLENCE! And the rest of the Muslims int he world hold their head in shame cause someone makes them look like a retard.

I do it everytime someone says christians are deluded retards and then they catch some polygamous child molesting church leader the next day. One rotten apple (okay a LOT of them) makes us all look like retards.

Remind me to use that defense if i ever go to court for murder, i'll just tell the judge "i'm innocent and i'll kill you if you dont say i am"

Reminds me of the stupid comic debaucle this summer.

Idealogy can not be spread by the sword, but by debate and logical reasoning.

War is for defense not "you hurt my feelings"

[mburbank]

Maybe I'm just stung by Kevins katty comments about my not adressing issues, but I thought I'd throw into the mix a link to an article by Christopher Hitchens article on this mess. Once a wild eyed liberal provocateur, he has for these last several years been quite the apologist for both the WAR ON TERROR and Bush. I was surprised to find that Hitch, who is not very sympathetic to Muslims and even less so to people who are, doesn't much care for Ratzenberger either.

While I hold no brief for violence in response to words, I think it would be foolish to suppose that Ratzi wasn't fully aware what he said would be taken as provocative. My question, is what sort of response (beyond the scholarly confines of his immediatte audience) was he looking for? I think that's a worthwhile and interesting question and that the barbaric response his speech has gotten does not make the question vanish. It simply means there are two issues, thematically linked, both worth examining.



http://www.slate.com/id/2149863

also, out of curiosity, Kev, why 'Fury' instead of just fury? They seem furios to me. Do your quotations imply that they are not actually furios, that their fury is about something else entirely or that while they may be furios, they have no right to their fury?

I doubt I disagree, since I think fury is almost always an inappropriatte response, but I won't know until you tell me what you mean.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Because their fury, as usual, is terribly misplaced. Also, if you took Fuzzy for his word, than virtually no muslims are really upset by this.

You're right about Hitchens, though. He is very consistent about his atheism, as annoying as it often can get. I too thought the Pope should've apologized, as I've already said. I don't think it was so much a calculated move, as it was Benedict failing to take into account that he isn't some Vatican academic who is going to have every word scrutinized. He's the figurehead of the faith, and he needs to be smarter about it.

BUT.....the reason he needs to be smarter about it is b/c of the ridiculous response we're seeing right now. So the grand irony in it all is that he quoted a medieval passage talking about the violent nature of Islam, muslims get upset, and then say nothing about the violence enacted against churches! Right, right.....it's so few muslims, just ignore them!

I wish I could set up a good vending business on the "Arab street". I'd make a killing, with how often they take to the streets in self-righteous outrage. The crux of the pope's speech was actually about the secular West. Where are the massive protests in Britain, New York, and LA? Why no church burnings there? Why hasn't a group of rabid secualrists gunned down a nun yet?

[Chojin]

Mohammed al-Nujeimi, a bitchy little professor with a brand new handbag at the Institute of Judicial and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, also criticized the pope's statement while being gay.

lol :<

[mburbank]

Okay. Fair enough.

I think there are just a fairly large number of furious Muslims right now, and furious people tend to point there fury wherever someone sets up a big, convenient target. Misplaced, sure, but predictable. That's why I think people should be furious less.

And Ratzi is a poo poo. It's the first thing I agree with Hitchens about in, like, five years, minimum.

[ItalianStereotype]

Originally Posted by I, fuzzbot.

lolz.

Yeah, that's totally what's gonna happen!

I think you're mistaking what's in the news with reality. There's a difference.

boy, your face must be red

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

to be honest the pope didn't so much apologize as he said "I'm sorry it offends you" Iran is demanding a retraction.

Of course after seeing the response I don't think he will retract. How many christians go on a murderous rampage when South park air's a Jesus joke? I know a lot get mad, but they keep it in perspective. (well a better perspective then firebombing comedy central)

[Ant10708]

A Pakistani foreign-ministry spokeswoman responded: “Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence.”

[ItalianStereotype]

typical Islamic reactions showing.

[KevinTheOmnivore]

Time for another Holy League, Eye Tie!

[ItalianStereotype]

Onward, to Constantinople!

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

on the other hand 3 murderous christians in indonesia where executed despite the pope asking for clemencly. The 3 were found duilty of multiple murders and serial killings. I guess all religions can be tards.

Personally I'm glad they were executed though.

Oh and isn't Constantinople Istabmbul now? You know it's turkish delight on a moonlit night.

[ItalianStereotype]

NOT ISTANBUL, NEVER

[Courage the Cowardly Dog]

istanbul and constantinople first istanbul then constantinople, even old new york was once new amsterdam, why they changed it i cant say, people just liked it better that way. Istanbul now it's turkish delight on a moonlit night.

[ItalianStereotype]

shush, I do not recognize Fagstanbul.