Basque assholes

[Brandon]

There's a tape now, apparently.

Originally Posted by CNN.com

The videotape, released by Interior Minister Angel Acebes, says: "We declare our responsibility for what occurred in Madrid, just 2.5 years after the attacks in New York and Washington.

"It is a response to your collaboration with the criminals [U.S. President] Bush and his allies. This is a response to the crimes that you have caused in the world and specifically in Iraq and in Afghanistan. And there will be more, God willing. This is a message from the military spokesman for al Qaeda in Europe."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...sts/index.html

[Abcdxxxx]

In answer to the whole "why would Al Qaeda do it?" question :

Muslim Al Qaeda types believe that Spain is lost Arab territory, the land of the lost Arab state of the Halifat of Kordova, which crumbled in 1492 as a result of the fall of Grenda. There's a huge movement within the Muslim fundamentalist communities to become a presence in the EU, and there's plenty of motivation beyond some lazy American logic wrapped around the typical "they hate us, see what we caused" theories.

As for the Basque seperatist movement: The Basque were around before the Romans. They're one of the most ancient nations, with an individual culture, language and longer history then most, surviving next to the Celts, the Ghals of Ireland, Welsh and Britany. Unlike the popular Palestinian movement, they can at least point to an exact time of autonomy even if it was 2500 years ago. While ETA has always done their fair share of bombings, a younger crop of members have made moves to adopt more violent PLO/IRA tactics.

[Zhukov]

I try very hard to keep a cap on my propoganda, and I don't want to be accused of making cheap political gain out of what happened in Spain. However, as horrific as the attacks were there is nothing wrong with looking at why they happened. I am passionate about these Spanish attacks, so I am sorry if I have gone too far.

While ETA has always done their fair share of bombings, a younger crop of members have made moves to adopt more violent PLO/IRA tactics.

You are exactly right. The increase in arrests in recent years has caused younger and more radical replacements. I think there will be an eventual split in ETA. One wing looking for a way out of counterproductive terrorism and another wing looking to increase militarist tactics in the hope that this will have the desired effect. I have been told by my comrades in Esker Marxista (Basque Country) have had their fair share of ex-ETA's signing up in recent years.

Maybe this is why ETA have not released a statement, as the new extreme-extremists are reluctant to condemn the Madrid bombing, even if they were not responsible for it, because they are planning something similar.

On the other hand, it could still be the more militaristic who are responsible. ETA may not usualy carry out such attacks, but Madrid could be the first sign of an increase.

The Popular Party may be holding of any imformation they have for fear of losing the elections.

Edit: Spelling

[Abcdxxxx]

ETA sometimes take up to a year before claiming responsibility, but with an election today (Sunday) it's unlikely they wouldn't take advantage of sending their message clearly. ETA have always worked in a different style altogether, and always call in a warning to evacuate civilians before their bombings. It's unlikely ETA would have gone to such great lengths to do this, and then frame Al Qaeda at the same time.

I think you're missing my point, Zuhkov. It's not the crack down on ETA that's inspired a new extremist wing of the organization, as much as it's inspiration from the success of the Palestinian movement.

[El Blanco]

Can you really say that the violent attacks are a victory in Palestine? After any bombing, the Israelis come back and damn near obliterate a town. The only real progress has come from peace agreements overseen by American and European countries, the very people AQ wants to wipe from the face of the Earth.

[Zhukov]

I'm not saying that the arrests have toughenend up ETA, I'm saying that the new blood are looking for alternatives to what has been unsuccesful early 20th Century style terrorism.

WAIT A SECOND! What is this?

MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- In a dramatic rebuff to the ruling conservative Popular Party, Spain's Socialists have claimed victory in Sunday's national elections.

With more than 90 percent of the vote counted, the Socialist Workers Party is on track to win 163 seats in the country's 350-seat parliament, just shy of an absolute majority.

The ruling conservative Popular Party is tipped to win 149 seats.

The Socialists so far have won 43.01 percent of the total vote, ending eight years of conservative rule.

The Socialist Party's leader José Luis Rodriguez Zapatero has appeared live on Spanish television to claim victory, saying his party was now in a position to form government.

The chief spokesman for Spain's ruling Partido Popular Party has congratulated the Socialist Party as the winner of the national elections.

The government will collaborate in the transition of power, said Eduardo Zaplana, who is also a Cabinet minister, in a nationally televised address.

Turnout was high at 76 percent with voters seeming to expressd anger with the government, accusing it of provoking the Madrid attacks by supporting the U.S.-led war in Iraq, which most Spaniards opposed.

Spain's general election was thrown wide open by a reported al Qaeda claim that it was responsible for Thursday's Madrid train bombings to punish the government for supporting the Iraq war.

Before Thursday, the Popular Party had been favored to win by a comfortable margin, making its leader, Mariano Rajoy, the prime minister. Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar chose not to run for a third term.

Polling booths opened at 9 a.m. Sunday amid claims that Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's government possibly withheld information from the public about who was behind the terror attack that killed 200 people and injured 1,500 more.

Saturday night several thousand demonstrators chanted and waved signs in front of the Popular Party headquarters in Madrid and other cities, demanding the truth about who carried out the bombing and criticizing the government.

Ministers had initially blamed the Basque separatist group ETA, but as evidence mounted of an Islamic link, officials were forced to revise this position.

Callers in the name of ETA have meanwhile issued media statements denying any role in the bombings.

"No more cover-ups," read one banner carried by the protesters.

Many of the millions who rallied for peace on Friday across Spain said they felt Aznar had provoked the attacks by backing the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, according to The Associated Press.

The majority of Spaniards, including Zapatero, opposed the war. No Spaniards participated in the invasion of Iraq but Aznar later sent 1,300 peacekeeping troops.

Officials meanwhile said on Sunday they had been unable to identify the purported al Qaeda military spokesman who had claimed responsibility on a videotape for the bombings. (Full story)

The tape was recovered by police from a waste paper bin near the capital on Saturday.

On the video, the man, described as Abu Dujan al Afgani, is reported to have said the group blew up the Madrid trains in retaliation for Spanish cooperation with Washington's war on terror and the conflict in Iraq. CNN has not seen the tape.

Interior Minister Angel Acebes said Sunday police would continue to hold five men -- three Moroccans and two Indians -- arrested on Saturday under anti-terrorist laws. One of the five men has been linked to the alleged ringleader of al Qaeda in Spain. (Full story)

The attacks struck four commuter trains Thursday morning. Ten backpack bombs exploded. But an unexploded pack contained clues -- the explosive ECO, made in Spain, combined with metal pieces intended to multiply its destructive effect, with a detonator and a mobile telephone.

The investigation started by focusing on ETA, Acebes said, but broadened with the discovery of the unexploded backpack and a van containing seven detonators and a tape of Koranic verses in Arabic.

The van was found shortly after the attacks, in the eastern suburb of Alcala de Henares, located on the same commuter line that was attacked.


Ten bombs exploded on four trains in three stations.
The private Spanish radio station, Cadena SER -- which has connections to the Socialists -- reported Saturday that sources in the Spanish intelligence agency said they were "99 percent sure" Thursday's attacks were carried out by Islamic extremists who probably fled the country immediately after the attacks.

The Socialists, which have pledged to bring home Spanish troops from Iraq if they win Sunday, would benefit if al Qaeda or another Islamic group were found to be responsible because of their opposition to the war, analysts said.

Aznar is not seeking a third term, complying with a pledge he made years ago not to seek a third four-year term. Former interior minister Mariano Rajoy is the Popular Party's candidate for prime minister.

Candidates are competing for seats in the nation's lower and upper houses of parliament.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/eu...ion/index.html

Democratic Socialists don't get me bed-wetting excited, but it is still good. Spanish troops out of Iraq it looks like, that weakens Blair for sure, and maybe Bush.

Now to throw out the other two!

[Abcdxxxx]

Originally Posted by El Blanco

Can you really say that the violent attacks are a victory in Palestine?

I can say that without violent attacks you wouldn't be giving two shits about Palestinians, just the same nobody was talking about Basque seperatists a week ago, and just the same way you're not taking up the cause of Chicanos in Texas or Sub-Saharans in Morroco. There wouldn't be film festivals, lecture panels, etc. etc. all devoted to the Palestinian cause.

Originally Posted by El Blanco

After any bombing, the Israelis come back and damn near obliterate a town.

Some would say that's a victory as well, baiting Israel into a war, and into strong arm retaliation tactics. Israel never obliterated any towns, unless you're still believing that the six houses of Jenin constituted an entire town. How do you expect even a socialist Spain to react if the ETA started bombing daily?

Originally Posted by El Blanco

The only real progress has come from peace agreements overseen by American and European countries, the very people AQ wants to wipe from the face of the Earth.

Okay Al Qaeda want the US and EU gone. Agreed. Taking up seperatist causes and supporting them has always been a bin Laden game plan. In interviews he spoke of civil wars, right?

What specific progress has come of peace agreements in the past 20 years? I mean which peace agreements are you refering too? With all the EU funding of the PA, and energy spent discussing possible agreements that never made it to the table, what have they done to settle Basque situation?