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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| Mar 29th, 2004 05:25 PM | ||
| ScruU2wice |
Ok, we move all the muslims and the jews 3000 miles away from israel and when we're set we let them lose so they can race to get the holy land... I think this will be a reasonable solution cuz we have all the benefits of them being treated like children about their cultures and we don't need to let them play with guns and explosives. PS I love this thread |
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| Mar 29th, 2004 05:06 PM | ||
| El Blanco |
Quote:
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| Mar 29th, 2004 04:34 PM | ||
| Abcdxxxx | "Let's put the Catholic Church in charge of the fate of Jews and Muslims" !! That's some high concept stupidity right there. I'm holding out for the penguin peace plan myself. | |
| Mar 29th, 2004 01:22 PM | ||
| El Blanco |
The only way would be to get a third party to act as a very heavy handed police force. In Sum of All Fears by Tom Clancy, they actually acheived peace through intervention by the Catholic Church and Greek Orthodox bishops. The main problem is in the book, the two sides willingly took a back seat to the whole process as it was discussed by a bunch of outsiders. I really don't see that happening in real life. |
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| Mar 29th, 2004 02:05 AM | ||
| Abcdxxxx | Unless they're Palestinian Penguins. That'd be a problem. | |
| Mar 29th, 2004 01:05 AM | ||
| Guderian | The Penguins would totally care! The arena they have now really sucks. | |
| Mar 28th, 2004 11:31 PM | ||
| Abcdxxxx | i'd like to believe the penguins would care (and that you were only joking...but it was almost too thought out in explanation to be comedic). | |
| Mar 28th, 2004 09:28 PM | ||
| Guderian |
The Palestinians should all go to Jordan, Syria, etc., and the Israelis should disperse around the world as they were before 1947-48.* The lands that are today occupied by those people could then be turned over to someone that both Europe/the UN/etc. and the US could agree on - say, Italy (hell, the Catholic Church has just as good a claim to Jerusalem as the Jews or Muslims do). The "quartet" (Russia, the EU, the US, and those other guys) can pay the costs of the occupation so that the Italian taxpayers don't have any reason to oppose the plan. Ultimately, it would be international territory - but to keep the Americans happy, we can't have the UN running the show (thus, the Italians). The now-peaceful land could then be used for more productive things, like growing food to feed starving Africans, building AIDS research centres, and constructing a new hockey arena for the Pittsburgh Penguins. As an added bonus, we don't have to hear about the Israel-Palestine thing from either the quasi-fascist neo-cons or the tree-hugging liberal hippies anymore. This is the perfect peace plan. In the long run, the only two groups who are going to be pissed are the Jews and the Muslims, and they should get over it eventually. The rest of us who are neither can only benefit. *As an alternative: give the Israelis half of Antarctica, and the Palestinians the other half. They'll still kill each other, but this way no one will have any reason to care. |
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| Mar 28th, 2004 08:30 PM | ||
| Pub Lover |
Whoops, I meant Moriarty.  :HardcoreSherlockHolmesFan
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| Mar 28th, 2004 08:20 PM | ||
| The One and Only... | I once tried to fuck Morality, but when she pulled out the strap-on I thought it would be best to leave. | |
| Mar 28th, 2004 06:46 PM | ||
| Perndog | Oh, I still like you, Zhukov, and I didn't say you were stupid. It's just interesting to me that the most ardent supporters of Socialism I've met on- and offline are about my age and aren't from underprivileged backgrounds. (The latter may not apply to you, but I never thought you were poor..) | |
| Mar 28th, 2004 02:51 PM | ||
| Pub Lover |
When it's a toss up between future security & ongoing petty warfare, I really think we should pick a side & then just follow through. Personally: Fuck Morality.  Homeland Security. :D |
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| Mar 28th, 2004 02:20 PM | ||
| AChimp |
Careful, dude! Didn't you see all those episodes of X-Files. 
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| Mar 28th, 2004 01:56 PM | ||
| Zhukov |
Scathing, perndog, really. We obviously have different views on the meaning of "comfortable" and "middle class". Oh, and I find it pretty wierd and stupid that you are a satanist. |
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| Mar 28th, 2004 12:27 PM | ||
| Perndog | It amuses me to no end how comfortable middle-class young adults talk so cheerfully and confidently about insurrections by the workers and all that other idealistic Socialist stuff. | |
| Mar 28th, 2004 12:02 PM | ||
| Zhukov |
Quote:
In regards to your first part camacazio, as long as they are basing the revolution on the woking masses, who have been convinced of a socialist revolution, and not on islamic radicals like Iran, then the only problem is to get the workers to side with a Socialist idea. This is the hard part; educating. The fun part is the insurection. Please don't stop discussing because of me. Max, post your idea from the othert hread, I thought it was good. |
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| Mar 26th, 2004 12:46 PM | ||
| da blob | actually that's the fun part of it. | |
| Mar 26th, 2004 12:40 PM | ||
| camacazio | The problem with starting a revolution is that both sides like their leader, i.e. they cause people on the other side to die. I think not only socialism on both sides is a good idea, because even with a secure federation of middle east nations to govern themselves, they'd still have problems with their neighbors no matter how peacefully they try to resolve things. I mean, under that plan the Israelis will still own Jerusulem. Besides, they'd be the few Jews next to a large number of Muslims. What they'd need are sensitivity classes, or some form of cultural integration, so that travelling, moving, or touring parts of other countries is in no way a difficulty whatsoever. | |
| Mar 26th, 2004 12:31 PM | ||
| Zhukov |
 You have to factor in the hard part though, which is making a revolution. |
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| Mar 26th, 2004 12:27 PM | ||
| da blob | I vote for zhukov. | |
| Mar 26th, 2004 12:01 PM | ||
| davinxtk |
I say we expunge the entire contents of both our mens and womens penitentiaries into the streets of Israel and Palestine, then threaten to drop "care packages" including firearms, gasoline, and Richard Simmons work-out tapes. And I'm only half-joking. |
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| Mar 26th, 2004 02:29 AM | ||
| Perndog |
The benefit of limiting your political activity to speculation on Internet message boards is that no one gets hurt if you're wrong. Bear in mind when reading any of my political posts that I neither think at length about my opinions nor talk about them anywhere but here; as far as I'm concerned, all political speculation is just jerking off with your brain anyway. I'm not a policy maker, and even the big powers are controlled to an unfortunate extent by public opinion. That said... Yeah, maybe Jerusalem was a bad choice, though with the number of Muslims already vehemently out for Jewish and Western blood, I don't think pissing the rest of them off by destroying Mecca would create a whole lot more enemies than we've already got. What it would do is scare the shit out of them; you're right that it might just make them more violent, but I'm betting the other way. If a holy city that isn't directly involved in the conflict would be a poor target no matter what, then any devastating attack on a more military target would do, so long as it is sufficiently brutal. If maximum force is never used, they will never take threats seriously enough and will never back down. Think of Hiroshima; that put Japan down in a quick hurry, didn't it? Yes, I was serious. Nobility isn't exactly a priority for me, though it is one of the main reasons why this won't actually happen. Even if world leaders wanted to do such a thing (and I have a hunch a couple of them would love to), they would never get away with it under the millions of eyes watching them on TV. Oh, and I didn't say ultimate peace. We're talking about peace in a particular conflict. Ultimate peace is an utter pipe dream, no matter what measures are taken. |
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| Mar 26th, 2004 12:39 AM | ||
| ScruU2wice |
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Leveling cities that have no military stances isn't going to make us look like the most noble cause either. Bombing a holy city accomplishes nothing strategically. Doing something that radical would sway the moral timber to the other side far too quickly. Plus you need to take into account the people who won't be too pleased with it accross the rest of the world (namely every single muslim/jewish/christian country on the planet) I don't know how your theory of ultimate peace will come from a supercedingly violent act makes sense. The only thing I think it would do is piss off alot of people and push people further and further away from peace... |
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| Mar 25th, 2004 11:28 PM | ||
| Zhukov |
There are only two roads for the peoples of the area: either socialist revolution or else a nightmare future of never ending violence, death and destruction. Build a Socialist Federation of the Middle East, within which each nation would have both the fullest autonomy and the right to self-determination. Thus a homeland could be guaranteed both to Jews and Palestinians. Instead of spending huge resources on military spending the wealth produced by the workers of the region could be used to solve all the problems that capitalism has not been able to solve. On the basis of jobs, decent housing, clean water, health care, pensions for all it would be possible to work towards the solving of rivalries and the cooperation between all the peoples of the Middle East. A socialist planned economy would free the Middle East from the stranglehold of imperialism once and for all. It would overthrow the corrupt feudal rulers who monopolise the oil wealth that ought to belong to all the peoples. |
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| Mar 25th, 2004 11:01 PM | ||
| Perndog | I wasn't joking, Max. If you wanted specific and detailed political steps, I'm afraid I can't give you much because I'm not too keen on procedures. But what I think the leaders should do is issue an ultimatum saying essentially "knock it off or we'll destroy the centers of your culture," and follow through on that threat if necessary. History has shown that Arabs are cowed by force (and their culture hasn't fundamentally changed since the last several times that was proven true), and if we give them one good whack with a big enough stick, I would wager that conflict will diminish with a reduced net loss of life and property. No one's going to agree with me on this forum and this isn't really going to happen until Europe and the US suffer a few more big attacks from hardcore Muslims (probably not even then), but I felt like talking about the subject honestly for a moment and this is the only actual effective solution I could come up with.. | |
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