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Mar 8th, 2003 03:27 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Raygun

Example?

Example of what he prays for, or an example of groups he has snubbed as of late? How about his own Church?

Quote:

He's not praying to clergy....

No, he's snubbing them.

Quote:

Do you or do you not agree that, you as a former Catholic, the Catholic Church has little or no credibility in this matter and should work on solving it's own problems before ANY credibility can be established to add weight to such criticism?

When the Southern Baptist Church can come out and endorse war by misconstruing verses from Timothy or something, I think it shows that the Catholic Church structure isn't the only one that needs to work out some issues.

Sure the Catholic Church has issues. You are talking about human beings who are EXPECTED in many ways to be sinful. The only reason it's such a big deal that the Catholic Church hierarchy is HUMAN is because the Church has a serious problem with idolatry, but I digress.

Quote:

Personally, I don't care what the Pope says. I consider it to mean absolutley NOTHING. I will never understand how anyone could support anything stated by a man in charge of a church that supports child molestation.

Well, when your church supports death and murder and suffering, I might just go with the lesser of two evils.

Mar 8th, 2003 01:33 PM

Ronnie Raygun

"Wrong. He was asked how much prayer helps him through this, and he listed this and that. He included that he prays for world peace. I find that ironic, considering his snub of the clergy organizations recently...." - Kevin

Example?

He's not praying to clergy....

Do you or do you not agree that, you as a former Catholic, the Catholic Church has little or no credibility in this matter and should work on solving it's own problems before ANY credibility can be established to add weight to such criticism?

Personally, I don't care what the Pope says. I consider it to mean absolutley NOTHING. I will never understand how anyone could support anything stated by a man in charge of a church that supports child molestation.

Mar 6th, 2003 10:36 PM

CaptainBubba

edit: nm, I just read a transcript of it. That question was painfully misleading.

Mar 6th, 2003 10:32 PM

El Blanco

Quote:

I believe the reporter asked what he would say to the victims and families of victims of Vietnam.

The question was what would he say to guarentee this would not turn into another Vietnam. The idiot reporter just threw in the references to the veterans for some half assed sentimental pander.

The President guarenteed that he would do everything in his power to make sure the objectives are completed and that the men and women fighting would be taken care of and that the people of the region would assisted.

Mar 6th, 2003 10:10 PM

Zebra 3

George W. Bush & Vietnam

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainBubba

I believe the reporter asked what he would say to the victims and families of victims of Vietnam. Bush's reponse was that we know what our goals are in attacking Iraq.

When the time came for him to fight in the Vietnam war he made it his goal not to go.

Mar 6th, 2003 10:08 PM

theapportioner

Quote:

He didn't dodge the protests, but he certainly dismissed them in a very "Nixonian" fashion. His assumption that everybody against war is some anti-capitalist anarchist is pretty ignorant.

Yeah, on second thought I think this is right.

Quote:

He seemed confident about turning the SC vote, which I find unlikely.

I thought the 'show your cards' challenge suggested that he was basically conceding that the US wouldn't get enough votes, or would get a veto. [/quote]

Mar 6th, 2003 09:58 PM

ItalianStereotype

no. thats not dodging. i am flat out telling you that vietnam is completely irrelevant to any of this. it would be like opposing world war 2 because of the spanish-americans war, the two are unrelated.

Mar 6th, 2003 09:46 PM

CaptainBubba

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

vietnam is not relevant to any of this. the reporter was a fool to ask that and anybody who believes that the invasion of iraq will be like vietnam is a complete dumbass.

And just like Bush you completley dodge. Its not the quality or timeliness that bothers me; its the fact that Bush completely refused to answer it.

Mar 6th, 2003 09:18 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

I agree, but I don't know that we should dismiss the possibility of a tense batle in Baghdad that does take a ot of lives.

Quote:

you kind of did jump the gun by criticizing him on any religious parts of his speech. that shouldnt be the reason you tune in and in my opinion it is kind of nitpicky.

Politicians do things deliberately. He has basically had to tell religious groups throughout the week that although he loves God, he ultimately thinks they're all wrong (even his own Church). It's honestly a position I don't envy.

However, when he makes such a deliberate point to address how faithful he is ( all be it in response to a question), you can bet that it's intentional (his softer tone might be due to this as well). Now that several different faiths and denominations are involved in this, he can't maintain the same kind of talk (it seemingly only impresses the Southern Baptists).

Mar 6th, 2003 09:09 PM

ItalianStereotype

sure its going to be unpopular on the home front, but this wont be a war that drags on for some 9-10 fucking years because our troops are too limited in what they can actually do. we arent going to lose 50,000 men if we go into iraq, they are only at 2/3 their original strength and we absolutely killed them in the first gulf war.

you kind of did jump the gun by criticizing him on any religious parts of his speech. that shouldnt be the reason you tune in and in my opinion it is kind of nitpicky.

by changing his tone you never know, he could sway some people over to his side...

Mar 6th, 2003 09:03 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

vietnam is not relevant to any of this. the reporter was a fool to ask that and anybody who believes that the invasion of iraq will be like vietnam is a complete dumbass.

I don't think our generals agree with you...? :/

Of course you see at least SOME similarities, at least the possibility of it being a highly unpopular war on the home front...?

Mar 6th, 2003 09:00 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

then you jumped the gun, good buddy.

I think I missed something. Maybe something I said has been misunderstood. Never did I say "THE PRESIDENT'S PRESS CONFERENCE DENOUNCES THE CHURCH AND PROTESTORS!!" He most certainly DID say what I was criticizing.

Quote:

he didnt dodge anything about the protests. he said pretty clearly that he is going to continue to try to convince france, germany, etc. that this is the right thing to do.he also said that if war becomes necessary, that we will all be surprised at how many people actually end up supporting it.

He didn't dodge the protests, but he certainly dismissed them in a very "Nixonian" fashion. His assumption that everybody against war is some anti-capitalist anarchist is pretty ignorant.

He seemed confident about turning the SC vote, which I find unlikely. Maybe I'm wrong, but he seemed to be holding a less hostile tone. He said "I hope he disarms," and "I hope we can do this peacefully." a lot. I think he has actually watched his rhetoric a bit more with the protests, clergy, and other UN nations turning against him. Good for him.

Mar 6th, 2003 08:59 PM

ItalianStereotype

vietnam is not relevant to any of this. the reporter was a fool to ask that and anybody who believes that the invasion of iraq will be like vietnam is a complete dumbass.

Mar 6th, 2003 08:57 PM

CaptainBubba

he dodged the Vietnam question completely. His answer didn't even have the word Vietnam in it.

I believe the reporter asked what he would say to the victims and families of victims of Vietnam. Bush's reponse was that we know what our goals are in attacking Iraq.

Mar 6th, 2003 08:54 PM

ItalianStereotype

then you jumped the gun, good buddy.

he didnt dodge anything about the protests. he said pretty clearly that he is going to continue to try to convince france, germany, etc. that this is the right thing to do. he also said that if war becomes necessary, that we will all be surprised at how many people actually end up supporting it.

Mar 6th, 2003 08:50 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItalianStereotype

yeah, i think you read too much into that kevin. religion has not been a major part of this press conference. thus far its been more rhetoric and further beating of the dead horse.

I WAS COMMENTING ON WHAT WAS BEING SAID AT THE TIME I POSTED! GEEZ!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BombsBurstingInAir

So much for those OBL rumors.

Mar 6th, 2003 08:49 PM

theapportioner

I watched the first 35 minutes or so of it. Expected, safe, canned, regurgitated, dodged the likely bullets (economy, protests, etc. but especially the economy), put things in a black versus white perspective that only simple-minded buffoons could appreciate. The last point, of course, is his specialty.

Mar 6th, 2003 08:47 PM

BombsBurstingInAir

So much for those OBL rumors.

Mar 6th, 2003 08:47 PM

ItalianStereotype

yeah, i think you read too much into that kevin. religion has not been a major part of this press conference. thus far its been more rhetoric and further beating of the dead horse.

Mar 6th, 2003 08:44 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Blanco

The only thing close to that so far (it ain't over yet) is that he believes that freedom is God's gift to everyone on earth. What is so wrong with that?

Wrong. He was asked how much prayer helps him through this, and he listed this and that. He included that he prays for world peace. I find that ironic, considering his snub of the clergy organizations recently....

Quote:

How much could either of you have seen? Honestly, this just looks like some 14 year old's attempt to sound funny and insightful.

What the hell are you talking about? You need to relax, it's OK to make light of the President, the sanctity of the Executive branch won't come crumbling down.

EDIT: And I said "is on," I didn't say it was over and completely analyzed. Spinster and I were both commenting on what had been said. As we used to say in middle school: take a 'chill pill'

Mar 6th, 2003 08:41 PM

El Blanco

Quote:

Right now he's blathering on about how muchhe prays, and stuff.

The only thing close to that so far (it ain't over yet) is that he believes that freedom is God's gift to everyone on earth. What is so wrong with that?

How much could either of you have seen? Honestly, this just looks like some 14 year old's attempt to sound funny and insightful.

Mar 6th, 2003 08:37 PM

theapportioner

Yeah total retread. Only new bit of information is that they're going to push for a vote regardless of what the other Security Council members decide on.

Mar 6th, 2003 08:34 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

The President's news conference....

....is on. Any thoughts thus far??

Right now he's blathering on about how muchhe prays, and stuff. I would LOVE it if he just said "f**k the Church" into the camera, I swear, he'd get my vote on '04.

Otherwise, seems like same old stuff.

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