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Jun 2nd, 2005 09:14 PM
pjalne Some Puertorican guy.
Jun 2nd, 2005 06:19 PM
GAsux
Yeah
Yeah yeah, what Chojin said. Which is I think what I said too.


If OJ didn't do it, who did?
Jun 2nd, 2005 06:07 PM
kellychaos Multi- Dimensional Man, where are you?!
Jun 2nd, 2005 02:47 PM
Chojin But for you to want an investigation means that there is a preconceived alternative. So what is a feasible alternative scenario and the reasoning behind it?
Jun 2nd, 2005 12:24 AM
ranxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin
So what are you suggesting?...
Ranxer, why would a missile have been shot at the Pentagon? Seriously.
I have never said i thought it was a missle.. my strongest point is that there has not been an honest investigation, in fact we've had a lot of the opposite. the administration did not cooperate with an investigation. they have withheld evidence and tried to reject investigation.

fact: 9-11 commission report says that hani hanjour was the pilot of the pentagon attack plane.
fact: hani hanjour was failing flight school.
fact: reports we have say that the flight path of flight 77 required a pilot with amazing skill. many veteran pilots have said they probably couldnt pull off the manuever that flight 77 did. begging the question of: was it a boeing commercial airliner? we even have quotes of the radar people watching the plane come in and saying it looked like a military jet manuever.
fact: flight 77 was "missing" from radar for about 40 minutes before it (or a signal matching flight 77) suddenly showed up over the pentagon in a steep dive. sheesh, why won't they release the videos??!!

I havn't claimed to know what happened, i'm saying that the conspiracy theory that the bush administration and the 9-11 commission came up with doesn't make sense.

I don't want to go into my favorite theory cause i'm not that much of a glutton for punishment but it involves a radio controlled global hawk. honestly, i don't care for alternatives i'm more interested in an honest investigation!
Jun 1st, 2005 08:43 PM
pjalne I don't know, dude. This has Doctor Who's fingerprints all over it.
Jun 1st, 2005 05:30 PM
Chojin I think what really happened is that the men in black misfired into the pentagon :<
Jun 1st, 2005 05:26 PM
GAsux
Yes
Where I come from they have a name for those kinds of conspiracies.

Incompetence.
Jun 1st, 2005 03:45 PM
ziggytrix Well, there are some conspiracies that suggest the attacks could have been prevented but were not. We needed a "Pearl Harbor" type event for our Middle East reshaping plan.

Not that what happened at Pearl Harbor was necessarily treason to get the country riled up, but there is some evidence to suggest it.

http://boards.historychannel.com/for...?forumID=30073

As for missles into the Pentagon... I think those extreme theories that have no rationale behind them are pretty dang pointless.
Jun 1st, 2005 02:17 PM
GAsux
Alternatives.....
When a criminal investigation takes places there must be a search for suspects and a motive.

I am not oppossed to 9/11 conspiracy theories because I hate anti-establishment liberals and therefore seek to debase every argument they put forth. I'm oppossed to the 9/11 conspiracy theories because they simply dont make sense.

IF in fact 9/11 wasn't perpetrated by islamic fundamentalists, who did? If there was U.S. government involvement, would it not require a broad level of knowledge amongst a shitload of people to pull off?

Who are the suspects and what are the motives?

As Machiavelli once pointed out, the more people there are involved in a conspiracy, the more difficult it becomes to keep it under wraps. The scope of 9/11 crosses a dozen different agencies. I simply cannot accept the assumption that people within all of those agencies would be willing to cooperate to some degree with a plot to this magnitude without someone screwing the pooch.

You can poke holes in an agrument in any investigation, but it doesnt mean dick if you can't provide a viable alternative and I've seen none. Sure OJ's bloody glove was too small and Mark Furman's a racist. But if OJ didn't kill those people, who the fuck did?
Jun 1st, 2005 12:37 PM
Chojin So what are you suggesting? That they tried to shoot down the flight and the missiles comically flew past and blew sideways in through the Pentagon, making the terrorists feel the mission was satisfactorily accomplished and henceforth flew the plane back to Saudi Arabia and buried all the passengers in a tar pit?

Ranxer, why would a missile have been shot at the Pentagon? Seriously.
Jun 1st, 2005 02:51 AM
ranxer
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngPur
I see airplane debris which Ranxer denied existed.

http://thewebfairy.com/killtown/imag...door_hatch.jpg
How far away are these? Where they there before the plane hit or moved in with the news crews and repair companies? This proves nothing.
first you say you see the debris then you sort of admit they arent plane parts, then say it proves nothing.. i'm not sure how much it matters if there are no airplane parts in that picture but you said you saw them. you don't seem to have your facts straight and lie and bluff like many of the "conspiracy debunking" websites.
I have seen other pics with plane parts but nothing that really seems to match flight 77 yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngPur
I don't know. I think all major points were covered, unless you want to change the subject to somewthing similar like how the moon landing was faked, or how the CIA shot Kennedy or how Elvis is an alien.
nice how you link 9-11 questions to whackyness.

there's lots of unanswered questions about flight 77 but i'd just like to see them release the videos.

answer me this angpur: why won't they release the vids?!
there's one that was confiscated from a gas station across the street and the pentagon one from the toll station. at least they released some snapshots so if they do release a vid we can see if it matches the pics, but the snapshots don't show anything but reasons to ask more questions.
It seems that we won't know until some whistleblowers come forward and there's an honest investigation.

i like the summary of this debate at: http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagontrap.html

oh yea and explain this:
Quote:
The testimony of Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta on May 23 about Cheney's actions is revealing. Mineta said he arrived at the Presidential Emergency Operating Center (PEOC) at 9:20 a.m. where he observed the Vice President taking charge:

Mineta: There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out.The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?"

And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And.

Hamilton: The flight you're referring to is the.

Mineta: The flight that came into the Pentagon.

After some discussion of whether Cheney's orders meant to shoot down the hijacked aircraft, it was clearly stated on the record that there were no such orders to do so, which raises the obvious question of what "the orders" were:

Hamilton: And so there was no specific order there to shoot that plane down.

Mineta: No, sir.

Hamilton: But there were military planes in the air in position to shoot down commercial aircraft.

Mineta: That's right. The planes had been scrambled, I believe, from Otis at that point.
i supose there's refutation that he said that, but if so, why wasn't it in the commission report?! [/quote][/code]
May 31st, 2005 06:09 PM
kellychaos
Re: To hell with physics...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAsux
What about the people god dammit! I dont' know shit about newtons and plutons and all that other nonsense. If it wasn't a plane where the fuck did those people go!
Worm-fucking-hole!
May 29th, 2005 11:14 PM
Chojin your haiku is broken
May 29th, 2005 10:09 PM
neojester12 i'm so glad
for starting this thread.
i feel so idiotic
May 29th, 2005 01:05 PM
El Blanco
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emu
Then they erased the memories of onlookers and passerby with that thing from Men in Black.
Linda Fiorentino?
May 29th, 2005 12:52 PM
Emu Then they erased the memories of onlookers and passerby with that thing from Men in Black.
May 29th, 2005 05:52 AM
FS Well OBVIOUSLY after the government shot themselves with a missile, they recovered the real wreckage from area 51 and strategically placed the remains of the bodies where they would have fallen had the plane really crashed there.
May 29th, 2005 04:36 AM
GAsux
To hell with physics...
What about the people god dammit! I dont' know shit about newtons and plutons and all that other nonsense. If it wasn't a plane where the fuck did those people go!
May 28th, 2005 08:00 PM
El Blanco
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chojin
I think it's fantastic that we're all debating whether or not an airplane can fly into a building. If you live in the US, you get about five opinions daily through bumper stickers that would suggest 'yes.'
Dude, you see some of the neighborhoods I work in. You can get t-shirts, bumper stickers and posters that will tell you just about anything on this particular subject.
May 28th, 2005 02:00 PM
kellychaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngPur
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggytrix
i am a little miffed he said my "numbers were all fubar" when the only real difference between his analysis and mine was he converted square feet to square inches without making a careless error.
Still, pressure alone doesn't determine penetration. Look to tanks with sloping armor.
You got that right. I was virtually begging this girl at the club one night and ...

Oh, I'm sorry. We really should get back to debating the ridiculous.
May 28th, 2005 12:44 PM
Emu The average is between 15-18 a day here. Most of them on the same Ford Ranger.
May 28th, 2005 10:09 AM
Chojin I think it's fantastic that we're all debating whether or not an airplane can fly into a building. If you live in the US, you get about five opinions daily through bumper stickers that would suggest 'yes.'
May 28th, 2005 06:31 AM
FS
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngPur
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant10708
I suggest we continue debating this instead of repeating joke's from 2 replies above.
I don't know. I think all major points were covered, unless you want to change the subject to somewthing similar like how the moon landing was faked, or how the CIA shot Kennedy or how Elvis is an alien.
Hang on, two of those are complete nonsense.
May 28th, 2005 01:48 AM
ScruU2wice
Quote:
but if you're so smart, where's your math?
My point was that I'm not smart enough to get the physics behind an air plane full of jet fuel and a pressurized air cabin crashing into building, and that's why I don't like the fact that I could've plugged numbers into a simple physics equation to sum up that type of an event.

Quote:
also, the conversion was from NEWTONS to pounds force - nothing wrong there.
The newtons are not going down but he said the acceleration is gravity. The force is pointed sideways so you need an acceleration going sideways.

Quote:
lso also, pressure = force/area
the force wouldn't be distributed over the whole wall so the area would be smaller making the pressure much higher.

Quote:
also also also, don't knock 10th grade physics - classical mechanics is the foundation of all engineering.
Even newtonian mechanics involved calculus, which is definetaly part of a 10th grade physics class.
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