|
||||||
| FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
Topic Review (Newest First)
|
| Apr 6th, 2006 05:38 PM | ||||
| mburbank |
US Opposes British List for Sudan War Crime Sanctions Â*Â*Â*Â*By Mark Turner, Guy Dinmore and Andrew England Â*Â*Â*Â*The Financial Times Â*Â*Â*Â*Wednesday 05 April 2006 Â*Â*Â*Â*US opposition may force Britain to remove any Sudanese government officials from a first list of names slated for United Nations sanctions over war crimes in Darfur. OH, BOY, NOW I CAN FINALLY CARE ABOUT THIS!!!THANK YOU GEORGE BUSH!! |
|||
| Apr 6th, 2006 05:29 PM | ||||
| mburbank |
I would but I wouldn't want to cramp your style. I mean, when a board has the one human being on earth god uses as his personal compassion faucet, why would a fella like me try to get in the way? See, I care as much as I'm able, but that's nothing. You CARE. But isn't that what you'd expect from someone who's just better than everybody else in every way. How can you fault me for not caring the way you do, when you already now your feelings are more genuine than anyone elses? It's a wonder you haven't stopped the trade in human slaves simply by focusing the awesome might of how much you care upon it. You pee the milk of human kindness. What are you even doing here when there are lepers you could be curing with your touch? But maybe I'm wrong. maybe your REAL power doesn't lie in the admittedly massive amount you care about all people everywhere, maybe it's in your laser like ability to guage the exact amount other people care, just by reading their posts and judging them with your solomonesque wisdom. Maybe tthe REAL service you could render the world is by developing a numerical caring scale, and using your super empathy powers to rank everyone and publish those ranks. Think of the hypocrisy you could expose! When, Abdgcgejhfg, when will you stop hiding here on a message board and shine forth upon the needy world in all your wonderfullness? Why should only the poor grateful unwashed here at I-mock be the sole beneficiaries of your Truth? Don't hide your light under a bushel, Abchdhegfhhsdg, the world is waiting. |
|||
| Apr 6th, 2006 02:47 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx | Cool. Tell us about slavery in North Africa now. | |||
| Apr 6th, 2006 02:23 PM | ||||
| mburbank |
And we also spent tax money on both sides of the Iran Iraq war. These are absolutely matters of concrn for me, and the more intimately the US is involved, the more if feel it's my concern as a US citizen to be informed, talk to my reps and give a shit. Now, this is going to be very, very hard for AbcgdhAJDH as it's pretty complicated. This does NOT mean I don't care about suffering caused by oother people in which the US does not play a role. I haven't posted about it yet, but I'm very pleased to see Taylor is probably going before the Hauge. He is an EXTEMELY ugly piece of work who's evil went unchecked for many, many years. Now if you are a moron with the emotional moral developement of a three year old, you'd take as proof that this is the first I've mentioned Taylor on these boards as proof positive that not only do I not care about all the blood he shed, I don't care about people Sadaam killed and I don't really care about people we kill. I just pretend because I hate George Bush. You'd have to be unhinged to think that, but I'm begining to think old Abdchghzd doesn't think it anyway. He's just so messed up that having noticed I take offense at that idea, he's really getting off on saying it. I'm not sure, 'cause that would mean he's more focused on getting my goat than mountains of corpses all over the world from all sorts of things going on. Unless he could do two things at once and have a host of different emotions about different thngs, which we all know is totally impossible. |
|||
| Apr 6th, 2006 12:55 PM | ||||
| kahljorn | No, there was a huge scandal over it if I remember right. The people on the UN side of things also got alot of money out of it(i really just remember the un people receiving money, I'm just guessing saddam did as well). Also, I should mention, it WAS a scandal, as in, they weren't supposed to receive that money. But when is any politician supposed to receive money from politics? | |||
| Apr 6th, 2006 12:11 PM | ||||
| Ant10708 |
Didn't U.S. taxpayer money contribute to saddam's killings? alot of our taxes are used for the U.N. and apparently Saddam got alot of money through the U.N. Oil for Food programn. Is this incorrect? |
|||
| Apr 6th, 2006 09:00 AM | ||||
| mburbank | Know what made that extra funny? The * on either side of 'have'. | |||
| Apr 5th, 2006 04:54 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx | Anti-war marchers *have* been known to wear a lot of hot pink. | |||
| Apr 5th, 2006 04:28 PM | ||||
| Chojin |
Quote:
|
|||
| Apr 5th, 2006 04:14 PM | ||||
| mburbank |
I was absolutely serious when I called Kev 'gay' as an insult. I was in no way making a joke or pointing out that Kevin makes sense wether I agree with him or not and you recently stopped making sense. In the future, I will try to be more sensative about gayness. Thanks. On Darfur, when I posted months ago that I thought we should take our troops out of Iraq and put them in Darfur where there was a strong moral imperative for there presence, Kevin's (I think it was him) response was that you couldn't make a business of saying which evils out there deserved priority. I've also posted that if the USA feels a calling to be in the tyrant smashing business, while Sadaam was bad, there were a number of rulers who ought to have come before him on the list. "If you really do care about civilian casualties and the dehumanization of of innocent people, there are MORE topics out there to be outraged about, and they are FAR less grey." Again: The Iraq war gets more attention from me because as an American, I consider myself complicit. You cannot imagine the grief and concern I'm caused by the fact you think this means I don't care about human suffering. Thank God Allmighty there are people like you, who's profound, significant, world altering, superior and honest compassion flows like a great river of bactine, soothing all the worlds boo-boos, and thank god for the mind reading powers of youir superior brain that allow you to truly read the hearts of others. Honmestly, it's a wonder you don't just explode in a puff of empathy, you wonderful, wonderful human being. "It's impossible to pretend you fuckers give a shit about Iraqi lives when you're rarely impressed by the death toll numbers under Saddam. We at least know Saddam was TRYING to deliberately kill innocents" You got me. My secret's out. I'm actually Hitler. That's how little I care. When Sadaam was killing people, he wasn't in an American uniform doing it at the behest of an American president and paying for it with American tax money. I'm an American. That doesn't mean I don't care when a tyrant kills people and only someone with seriously stalled emotional mental developement would make that assumption. Plus, there ar even worse tyrants than Sadaam out there and we don't do fuck all about them, so the idea that we went after Sadaam on account of how bad he was is ridiculous. As I've said befoe, I am glad Sadaam is out of power, I'm glad he's on trial, and I'm VERY glad he isn't killing people anymore. Does that mean I have to be glad that we are? I know, I know, you know everything about the middle east and anyone who knows the things you do would be incapable of holding an opinion different from yours. Just in case you're still missing the irony, this is why I keep telling you to not try to make jokes. Because I know everything about funny and you don't so you don't have the right to your jokes and you shouldn't post them. There. I explained it for you. Now will you explain your Lionel Ritchie bon mot? |
|||
| Apr 5th, 2006 04:08 PM | ||||
| Chojin | As a half-breed gay, I label you an idiot, alphabetstraightedge. | |||
| Apr 5th, 2006 03:49 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx |
"Gay" as a negative. Classy. Look people, there's been one (maybe two at most) threads made on Darfur, and Kevin was the one who made it. I understand that the disproportionate amount of media exposure towards a full on war has it's place in a discussion forum, but get some new angles or something. If you really do care about civilian casualties and the dehumanization of of innocent people, there are MORE topics out there to be outraged about, and they are FAR less grey. It's impossible to pretend you fuckers give a shit about Iraqi lives when you're rarely impressed by the death toll numbers under Saddam. We at least know Saddam was TRYING to deliberately kill innocents....where in the case of our soldiers, it's a grey area. Unless you're a psychopath who believes our purpose there is to kill, because at it's most basic, war is about killing. I don't think any of you truly care about Iraqis, or you would take into account what this war means for the 900,000 Iraqi exiles of all religions who lost everything under Baathist rule. Is there brutality going ignored by our media? Yup, but it's from all sides, and if you believe that 2500 years of fueding has it's roots in an American invasion from 3 years ago...well, then it sounds like you're reading, and believing whatever fits into a simple ideology that you can understand, or that plays to an agenda you support. But like I said before...don't pretend that makes you a humanitarian, or that you give a shit about Iraqi lives, because you're not fooling anyone. |
|||
| Apr 5th, 2006 10:52 AM | ||||
| mburbank |
"They're going to have to start rounding them up in bigger groups then that if they're goal is to kill every Iraqi. That is why they're there right? To kill people?" -Abcdxx How do I make this clear? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY HERE. Until recently, I pretty much always understood what you were saying. Didn't always agree, often thought it was pompous, but I understood you. Lately I DO NOT UNDERSTAND about half your posts. I find you erratic and unclear. I can't respond to their content because I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THEM and this is a NEW PHENOMONENON. No psycho drama. No joke. I can't make a plitical response because I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOU. Now, a political response to Kevin, who I disagree with here, BUT I DO UNDERSTAND and so I CAN RESPOND TO by talking politics. Kevin; You are gay. I'm kidding. You may well be gay, but here's what I think about what you said. "I think the question is whether or not you believe American soldiers target innocent people. I think you certainly do have cases of it, but do I think it is intended policy? No." -Kevin, wjo is obviously insane I agree that in some cases Amercians target civillians they know are innocent and in many more cases they target the nearest local without regard to guilt or innocence. And yes, I think inurgents count on that, and it's tactical on their part. Do I think it's policy? Good lord, I certainly hope not. I don't think so, and it would be truly horrific if it turned out to be true. I DO think it's policy to set up an immediatte stone wall of denial around any american atrocity or tragic blunder. Look at the Pat Tillman case. I doubt it is official policy written down anywhere. I don't thin there's a manual that says "If something reallty ugly happens, lie about it right away." Nonetheless, I think it's standard operating procedure and it comes from the top down. "Could it be at all possible that the lines between civilian and soldier are often blurred in guerilla warfare? " -Kevin, who not ony do I disagree with, but I can't understand a damn word he's saying because he's probably drunk again or screwing a hobo. Sure. I think that's often the case. I also think war dehumanizes and terrifies perfectly decent people until they don't care who's the enemy and who might just be standing nearby. Everyone not a fellow soldier becomes the enemy. That's why it's damn near impossible to beat an insurgency. BUT I think when you find whole families killed, right down to the children and you say they were killed by a roadside bomb but they're found dead in their pajamas in their homes with bullets in them... something different is going on there. Something evil. And denial and cover ups ad to the evil and strongly reduce any possability of soldiers who are doing their damndest achieving any good. "Civilian life only becomes important when they are unfortunately dying at our hands." -Kevin, who rather than respond to seriously, I will pretend is unintelligable and accuse of mental illness. That isnt true or fair. I am a lefty. I am also anti-war. I strongly doubt I am this straw man you have created called the anti-war lefty. Of course civillian life was important then. Just as it's important in Darfur, where as I've often said, I think our troops have a moral obligation to be, as opposed to Iraq. BUT. when MY country goes to war, useing in part tax mony I pay for a war I believe is immoral, I am far more intimately involved. My representative government has made a decision and commited my money to these civillian deaths, not to mention the deaths of our soldiers. You may not agree that the degree of difference is as sharp as I ppersonlly think it is. But you're in Abcdxx territory when you claim that 'anti-war' lefties don't care about human life until we can have big hate america protests about it, which I think was your implication. "I have absolutely NO way to know the veracity of this statement. And ya know what? Neither does the douche bag who wrote this article." -Kevin who I have to make a joke about because I'm to ignorant to confront his ideas We have no way of knowing the veracity of any of the things this article talked about. That was my main question. Do you believe these sorts of things are happening (including cover ups, which you are entitled to disbelieve, and I certainly agree that article doesn't even attempt to prove) and if so, can you have a war without this sort of thing and if you can't is THIS war worth THOSE things? And yeah, the author is a little bit of a douche bag. But he's a douche bag who wrote an oppinionated article on some very troubling questions. He's not a douchebag who was a brutal facist dictator, or a douchebag who engaged America in a war of choice it looks more and more as if he was determined to undertake maybe even before 9/11 that has taken tens of thousands of lives. On the douchebag scale, he's a very, very, very small douchebag. AND he's writing about something I think people need to think about a whole lot more. "I'm sorry, I could only skim the remainder of the article. The gist I got was that American soldiers are mentally ill" -That gay stupid guy Kevin who I am smarter and funnier than which I will prove by pretending I don't understand him and gtting all my zombie fans to do the same Well, that would be your problem, and I think you got it wrong. I thin the arfticle is saying a situation like the Iraq war, where your life is in danger, the mission is unclear, the amount of time you're staying is unclear, who the enemy even is is unclear and where their is the distinct feeling any action is permissible would make MOST people mentally ill. I have incredible sympathy for anyone over there right now who is not as crazy as a shithouse rat, and I have sympathy for those that are, even the ones who's craziness makes them do terrible, terrible things. I have known enough Vietnam vets to know the things you do in combat can eat at your soul for decades. God's mercy on every one of them, Kev. And partof the reason I want them home some desperately is not because I'm an 'anti-war lefty', but becaue of stuff I've seen volunteering at the VA. I want them home alive, and I want them home before they are irreprably mentally damaged, something war does to a lot of perfectly decent people. "Americans are stupid and in denial. I think I've read this article 20+ times before." Kevin who is too dumb to know he's wrong even though I don't understand what he's saying I don't think (and I don't think the article said) Americans are stupid. I do think it said we are in denial, which we generally are in war. THAT's my central question here. How much atrocity, unintentional and intentional is goimng on, can we tell or hear the truth about it and if we do is this war worth the cost? The story that bothers me most in this article is the one with the house with the dead family in it that included two little girls. Could it be possible Amercian soldiers did that on purpose in a moment of madness after almost being killed themselves? I think most people (and I could be wrong) either think there is no way American soldiers under any circumstances would execute little girls, or simply push the story away. It's hard to think about. I don't know if it happened or not, but I think it's important to know and to care. It's not okay (for me) to say 'This is war, people die in a million horrible ways and soldiers driven crazy storming a house and killing veryone in it right down to the toddlers ON PURPOSE is just one more thing.' If it didn't happen (and God I pray it didn't and if Abcdxx think I don't care and this is just posture, that's on ccount of his mad cow disease and shriveled, black heart) I want to know. If it did happen, I want to know. I hope that dooesn't mean I'm a douchebag anti war lefty. "Max, I do belive that some of this may be true. I'm guessing all of it might have a degree of truthiness to it. I think tired, frustrated, heat scorched, and often hated soldiers, perhaps questioning their role over there, are capable ofdoing horrible and regretable things. This doesn't however mean that this is a quiet U.S. policy in Iraq, or that we are intentionally commiting mass genocide in Iraq." -Kevin, What? Did ANYBODY get that? Is it just me? See? we pretty much agree. our main disagreement, I think, is that I believe it's policy to sweep this stuff under the rug when it happens, and I think that's very, very bad. I also think we may disagree on how important these events are. War should be something Nations do, not something we turn away from or treat like a televised sport. I think the kind of crazy war makes our young men and women, the toll it takes not just on the dead and maimed, but those who seem like they come home okay, and the things we do during war are things we are morally 0bligated to look in the face. More than the things other people do because we are doing them. I don't hate America, I am American. When a terrorist of a mahdi army militiaman or a foreign jihadist or baathist dead ender cuts someones head off, that's a barbaric, horrendous atrocity. But when an American soldier does anything even remotely in that ball park, to some small degree I did it too. We are a nation, and no matter who I vote for or how grudgingly I pay my taxes the blood is on all our hands. Maybe it has to be and there's no avoiding it. But it's there and as citizens each nd every one of us ought to weigh the cost. Oh, and Kevin? You are a gay hobo fucker and I can't understand you at all. |
|||
| Apr 4th, 2006 11:56 PM | ||||
| ScruU2wice |
I'll start it off for him Quote:
|
|||
| Apr 4th, 2006 09:54 PM | ||||
| ziggytrix | excellent point, please elaborate. | |||
| Apr 4th, 2006 09:45 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx | it's curious how all you psuedo-humanitarians manage to avoid posting about darfur, and other news stories where the death tolls far exceed that of iraq's 40,000 death toll. it's hard to imagine anyone who really cares about civilian casualties would overlook 100,000 kurdish deaths at the hands od saddam. | |||
| Apr 4th, 2006 09:20 PM | ||||
| ziggytrix |
Quote:
Quote:
We had something like 130,000 troops over there back in '03 and I dunno how many we have now. What control mechanisms are in place to weed out soldiers with overly violent impluses? Would the Pentagon even have any use for weeding out overly violent soldiers? Isn't being violent nearly to the point of mental illness pretty much a survival skill for an infantryman? (That may look like a rhetorical question, but I really don't know - the only ex US infantry I know is my graddad, and he wasn't involved in guerilla warfare.) So while not quite being intended policy, high civillian casualties is likely seen more akin to a write-off. It's viewed as inevitable, I think. An interesting point to note is that insurgent forces in Iraq right now seem more concerned with fighting other Iraquis. Last month's numbers 31 US troops dead vs at least 1,038 Iraqi civilians died last month in war-related violence, according to the AP. source They don't say how many of that number died from American munitions vs. from insurgent bombs and whatnot. But as Abcdxxxx so ineloquently illustrated, most people don't really care to get into this sort of "psychodrama". Talking about possible alternatives is not pragmatic and just aids the terrorists. You are obviously pathetic if you care about civilian casualties. Innocent people die all the fucking time, just get over it you sissies. |
|||
| Apr 4th, 2006 08:20 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Re: Are War, war crimes and atrocity inseperable Quote:
Quote:
Saddam Hussein empitied his palaces and encouraged Iraqis to have sleepover parties in them prior to our invasion of the country. I'm always surprised by the seemingly obtuse perspective Anti-war Lefties have on this. Civilian life only becomes important when they are unfortunately dying at our hands. The fact that Hussein's regime encouraged and hoped for this gets little attention. Quote:
Is it such an unrealistic assumption, that perhaps our enemies in Iraq want us to be viewed as the imperialistic tyrant, thus bringing on international heat and distraction? I'm sorry, I could only skim the remainder of the article. The gist I got ws that American soldiers are mentally ill, that everyone else is inately good and honest except for of course American soldiers, and Americans are stupid and in denial. I think I've read this article 20+ times before. Max, I do belive that some of this may be true. I'm guessing all of it might have a degree of truthiness to it. I think tired, frustrated, heat scorched, and often hated soldiers, perhaps questioning their role over there, are capable ofdoing horrible and regretable things. This doesn't however mean that this is a quiet U.S. policy in Iraq, or that we are intentionally commiting mass genocide in Iraq. |
|||
| Apr 4th, 2006 07:14 PM | ||||
| ArrowX |
Re: Are War, war crimes and atrocity inseperable An AP video of the scene shows male bodies tangled together in a bloody mass on the floor of the Imams' living quarters - all of them with shotgun wounds and other bullet holes. The tape also shows shell casings of the caliber used by the US military scattered about on the floor. I find that particularly amusing that they can claim that since the Americans 5.56x45 ammunition is used by about 80% of the Countries in NATO, not to deny the Maericans involvment but there are alot of weapons NATO and non NATO calibre weapons in circulation. |
|||
| Apr 4th, 2006 06:34 PM | ||||
| ScruU2wice |
Quote:
Quote:
Remember how many times we've gone over the hilarity of google image search?.. |
|||
| Apr 4th, 2006 06:07 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx | stop creating some psychodrama and talk politics. | |||
| Apr 4th, 2006 05:43 PM | ||||
| mburbank |
Abcdxx, the consensus seems to be that you have become way less clear and it's recent. It has nothing to do with my diagreeing with or disliking you, both of which are not new to me. The clarity of your posts has drastically deteriorated, and rapidly too. You might want to see a doctor. I do not understand what your original post was trying to get across. I get that it was sarcastic, but not what information you intended to convey. It does not seem I'm alone in this. Either you've gotten harder to follow, or everyone here coincidentally got stupider just at the same time. Occams razor suggests something is going on with you. |
|||
| Apr 4th, 2006 04:20 PM | ||||
| RaNkeri |
I think the article is right. US troops have been too long out there, and because of everyday losses the war itself is turning the soldiers into mindless monsters who doesn't give a fuck how many civilians they kill. "Saving Iraq from a dictator, and turning it into a peacefull nation" my ass! |
|||
| Apr 4th, 2006 04:09 PM | ||||
| Geggy |
It's true, max. A must watch video of US soldiers' tales of their experience in Iraq. http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12552.htm |
|||
| Apr 4th, 2006 04:06 PM | ||||
| AChimp | Yeah, I thought so. | |||
| This thread has more than 25 replies. Click here to review the whole thread. | ||||
