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| Aug 1st, 2006 10:13 PM | |||
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
the real wage compared to inflation of the last time we raised minimum wage is about $4.75 i think. give or take. Kahl makes a good point and i must take back my statements about unemployment rising after seeing the studies. I'm actually glad to be wrong on that :P Small business also usually pay by the unit of labour or by the job if you aren't specialty. They also mainly use part time labor. At least that's my experience and how my plans for a small business go. |
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| Aug 1st, 2006 02:11 PM | |||
| kahljorn |
I don't know if this was addressed or not, but how many businesses even hire minimum wage employees? How many of them are small businesses? To me it seems like if anyone was going go have to fire someone because they had to pay for extra wages, it'd probably be small businesses. In my experience small businesses don't pay minimum wage, but that's a rather limited experience. However if small businesses are paying minimum wage that's bullshit anyway, because most small businesses are "Specialty shops" or something, and the employees they are hiring more than likely require some sort of job skills. I can see something like private owned shoe stores paying minimum wage, but usually one person runs an entire shoe store so it's not really going to make that big of a different. Everybody keep this in mind: A one or two dollar increase in minimum wage that affects less than 1% of the population will completely ruin the economy and everyone will lose their jobs, but gas prices going up one or two dollars, that'll fix new orleans, the war in iraq, improve our economy and also create an immortality serum. In my opinion it won't take long for the economy to either fluctuate and make doing this pointless, or fluctate and make it meaningless. Minimum wage employees might have a few years before things start catching up again ;( |
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| Jul 31st, 2006 10:07 PM | |||
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
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| Jul 31st, 2006 09:29 PM | |||
| Preechr | Until they get fired because their employers were forced to pay more for labor. | ||
| Jul 31st, 2006 09:25 PM | |||
| Courage the Cowardly Dog | yeah but this way we don't have to pay their welfare and unemployment | ||
| Jul 31st, 2006 09:14 PM | |||
| Preechr | Those people are losers and lazy people | ||
| Jul 31st, 2006 08:30 PM | |||
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
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| Jul 31st, 2006 03:56 PM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore | Noted. | ||
| Jul 31st, 2006 03:43 PM | |||
| AChimp | I would like to reiterate my opinion that minimum wage is for losers and lazy people. This seems like the right time to do so. | ||
| Jul 31st, 2006 03:39 PM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Maybe you should go back and edit your post to say "effect," since what you said is "raising minimum wage raises unemployment." How long does it "raise unemployment"? Does it raise unemployment as in closes industry, or does it "raise unemployment" for a year, and then merely adjust (ya know, when companies realize it's cheaper to just shut up and pay people rather than up and moving their whole operation)? I mean, I can't promise pie charts, but I can find a study or two: http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/min_wage.htm or, http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issue...e_minwagefacts Quote:
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| Jul 31st, 2006 02:57 PM | |||
| CaptainBubba |
you: "raising the minimum wage leads directly to high unemployment" not what I said. Yet again. I did not say "leads to high unemployment" I said higher. It has an effect on unemployment. Thus, it is not the sole determinant of unemployment. Either you really really want this to be what I said and are embarassed that its not or you are not actually critically reading what you quoted me saying. The third one is my favorite too! Its in lots of books but the kitty was a nice touch! |
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| Jul 31st, 2006 01:06 PM | |||
| Courage the Cowardly Dog | i like the one with the kitty | ||
| Jul 31st, 2006 11:59 AM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
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I'm actually not in favor of a "living wage," because I think it's rather vague. I think the federal riase is fine, b/c as I said, half the country is doing it already with little economic catastrophe to speak of. Santa Fe expects to raise their city minimum up to $10.50 by 2008. It's already the highest in the country at like $8.50. I think that's probably too high (the former), but I also think the city economy will adjust ot the high rate and not plunge into depression. Nice graphs. |
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| Jul 31st, 2006 11:25 AM | |||
| CaptainBubba |
Your argument is suprisingly illogical in its most basic foundations. I said that raising minimum wage will cause unemployment and even if states with higher minimum wages have more people employed this would fit just dandy with my statement. Obviously the opposite is most likley true, because areas where the employers can only afford to pay minimum wage would then also most likley have a hard time affording new employees. Essentially what you are doing is twisting my argument to say that there is a direct correlation between minimum wage and employment with no other factors involved, which again is suprising as you are far smarter than to go ahead and say something like that when you probably know I, and noone with an iota of intelligence, would suggest that. There is no single direct correlation with employment and I said raising minimum wage raised unemplyment, which means each individual states original unemployment could be highly different from the others and so would the end unemployment. In my state you would be hard pressed to find an employer not voluntarily paying at least 7.50 an hour and it is easy as hell to get a job. Raising the minimum wage would actually put Eastern European seasonal workers out of jobs most likley, because they tend to get paid they very least (around 6 an hour) out of everyone and often slack at their jobs for whatever reason. I doubt any organization keeping track of minimum wage here would count those seasonal employees or care about them since they are not permanent citizens. And now for the graphs!:   
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| Jul 31st, 2006 10:37 AM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
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Does every state with a higher rate than the federal have higher rates of unemplyment? |
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| Jul 31st, 2006 10:14 AM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Preeche tells story like a grandpa. This will probably die in the Senate anyway. EDIT: Sorry, but to add to that, I'm sort of frustrated will all of this b/c we're seeing a lot of mid-cycle politics right now. And it's funny, because Liberals and Democrats have been howling for weeks about how arbitrary flag burning amendments and other token Right-wing issues are, and that we have "important things to be discussing," etc. etc. Meanwhile, House Dems push through a minimum wage increase that they know probably won't pass the Senate, all so they can go back to their districts in August and put "and I voted X amount of times to increase the minimum wage!" on their brochures. Ugh, I'm disgusted. |
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| Jul 30th, 2006 08:59 PM | |||
| Preechr |
Sounds like you're doing fine. I wasn't making any judgements on who you are or what you're doing, and if I thought you were stupid, I wouldn't be talking to you. I still say you should move if your assessment of available wages is correct. I've lived in some pretty fucked up places in my life, and I've never seen the minimum wage being the maximum available. Sounds like you are already working the equation. Keep doing that. The only dog I have in this fight comes from my disagreement with mandated minimum wages, or it's cousin: the "living" wage, so if you're not advocating that, it seems we're done here. HAVE A NICE DAY. |
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| Jul 30th, 2006 08:32 PM | |||
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
i believe i am managing my money well. most of my coworkers are in debt. I recently bought a trailer in my trailer park fixed it up and sold it at profit and am subletting the land beneath it. I have plans for a small minimal risk business and have already taken on an unpaid intern who needs experience and training i offer and also i'm giving him a share of the profit. Most of my money as of now is going towards my impending marraige, besides which a second income even if its minimum wage part time would help make ends meet. You'll note i never said i wanted the state to mandate the raise. This only costs more people like me their jobs because as wages raise so also does unemployment (that money does come from somewhere) and a low paying job beats the hell out of non at all. I am quite capable of handling money I'm not as stupid as you believe i just live in a poor region. I live rather comfortably for someone in my financial situation so i'm happy right now. But you know what they say about the rich man and his money, he'd trade it all for a little more. Not everyone has the oppertunities you have. In the Phillipines you work 10 hour days for 35 cents an hour, do you think they are poor cause they don't work hard enough? My life is going just fine but your sense of entitlement is rather odd to me. A lot of people work a hell of a lot harder then you and make much much less. I once read that people who make more than 50,000 a year tend to believe in karma and that hard work always pays off, and the those who make less are 30% more likely to believe that's not always true. Just cause all lazy slackers (at least ones not born into wealth) are poor, doesn't make all poor people lazy slackers. |
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| Jul 30th, 2006 07:58 PM | |||
| Preechr |
Once you do whatever it takes to get what you want and succeed once, it gets easier to do it the next time... and it gets progressively easier every time you do it. You're young. I'm not all that young anymore, and I've been around the block a few times. I understand what the big picture looks like from your perspective, and I know for a fact that it's impossible for me or anyone else to explain life to you in a way that will wind up being helpful for you. You just have to do it. Federally mandated wages just aren't an answer. Life's hard. It was meant to be. Doing it, either well or badly, is it's own reward. Think of it this way: You're not mentally prepared for money yet. Money is a terribly complex thing, though it's also sublime in it's simplicity. The main thing you need to be doing at this moment is assessing your desires and comparing those to your ability to attain them and the resources available to you to do so. These are all variables. Set up an equation using these variables and then make it work to the best of your ability. For instance, we're talking here about your payscale. The one you have now is one of those resource thingys. The better one you do not have yet falls into that ability catagory. You say you can't attain your desires in this regard because your location obstructs your ability to increase your resource base. While I could argue with your assessment of the situation, I won't. Let's say you're right. As I said: MOVE. You counter that your desire to move, which would facilitate the increase in resources needed to achieve your desires, is similarly obstructed by your present resources. How about this: Reallocate either those resources or your desires and you're all set. At your age, I think I'd recommend the former over the later. Save decommissioning your dreams for later in lafe. |
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| Jul 30th, 2006 07:07 PM | |||
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
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| Jul 30th, 2006 06:53 PM | |||
| Preechr | If it's truly that bad, and you need the money, MOVE. | ||
| Jul 30th, 2006 06:35 PM | |||
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
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| Jul 30th, 2006 03:52 PM | |||
| Preechr |
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to be trying to figure out how to live on minimum wage. If you're willing to work even just a little bit and you have enough sense to make it there in the morning, pretty much anybody should be able to rustle up eight to ten bucks an hour. I've worked full time for about 17 years now, and I believe I've totaled about two months of that working minimum wage... Well, that was before I started my first full time job... as a dishwasher, where I earned about $1.50 over minimum wage. We're at 5% unemployment despite all those jobs we've "shipped overseas" and the millions of illegal immigrants we bring in "to do the jobs Americans don't want to do." There are plenty of jobs out there that pay more then monopoly money. |
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| Jul 30th, 2006 03:23 PM | |||
| AChimp | Minimum wage is for losers and lazy people! | ||
| Jul 30th, 2006 02:50 PM | |||
| Courage the Cowardly Dog |
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In Missouri the minumum wage is 5.15 an hour. |
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