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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| Jun 27th, 2003 02:24 PM | ||
| Vibecrewangel |
Race I still see it as the same thing with a different tag applied. Just because it fills a niche doesn't make it any different. If FUBU can fill a niche then A&F should be able to do the same with the blonde haired blue eyed "All American" types if they so choose. It's just a niche. |
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| Jun 27th, 2003 02:22 PM | ||
| The_voice_of_reason | I don't understand racial pride. Congratulations your parents were white/black/asian/ and they fucked. And don't tell me its "pride in your heritage" that is bullshit. Why would you be proud of the things people hundreds of years ago did? | |
| Jun 27th, 2003 02:10 PM | ||
| Jeanette X |
Re: Racisim Quote:
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| Jun 27th, 2003 01:32 PM | ||
| FS | I think in most countries "white pride" is automatically considered to be racist, but "black pride" or other non-white pride isn't really expressed anywhere but in the US - or at least, not as fanatically. | |
| Jun 27th, 2003 12:32 PM | ||
| AChimp |
It's American. No one in Canada gives a shit about their own skin colour or anyone else's. Sure, there are minority groups that lobby for this and protest against that, but there's never any "We deserve this because we're ______". The only except are Natives who complain about how badly they think they're treated and why they should get special treatment, but that varies province-to-province with the differences in aboriginal population. Even then, it's a small minority of Natives that complain. Most of them don't really care like the rest of us. |
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| Jun 27th, 2003 12:06 PM | ||
| Vibecrewangel |
Racisim True, but even in lesser ways it is still the same Magazines like Blaque and Ebony. Black Entertainment Television. Latin Soap Operas. We even have (I kid you not) Asian and/or Indian Shopping Malls. If someone tried to title ANYTHING white it would be frowned upon at the very least. It is not PC to be proud of being caucasian. In fact, if you are you are a bigot or racist....even if you aren't. You can be proud of your genetic heritage (which really means very little IMHO) as long as it doesn't come with pale skin. I have a question for the foreign Mockers. Is it like this in your country? Or is this a particularly American thing? |
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| Jun 27th, 2003 11:52 AM | ||
| Jeanette X | Not all racists are skinheads. And I think the reason "White Pride" is associated with racism is because a lot of white racists wear stuff like that. | |
| Jun 27th, 2003 11:41 AM | ||
| kellychaos | Society has a way of economically regulating itself in these types of matters. I say let them do what they feel is in their best interest and their business will survive or fail based on it's merits. | |
| Jun 27th, 2003 11:06 AM | ||
| Vibecrewangel |
A&F Quote:
However, anything that is called "white" is considered racist. Not that anything called "black" or "asian" or "latino" is any less or more racist. The just don't get called on it. It may not be right, but it is the way it is. Now, before anyone jumps down my throat again and says my lumping people into catagories like black, asian and latino just perpetuates the problem..... Let me remind you that, for the sake of this post, I am only pointing out what I see daily in the way of oh.....say........ Asian Pride shirts Black Pride shirts Latino Pride shirts If you wear a White Pride shirt, even if your head ain't shaved, you are still treated like a racist. It is total b.s. But I doubt it will go away any time soon. Too may whiners and too many apologists. |
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| Jun 27th, 2003 10:48 AM | ||
| mburbank | I think you're wrong. I also predict A&F will make a strong effort to change their image including their sales force. Not for any altruistic reason, but simply to avoid the image of being clothing exclusively for whites. Time will tell. | |
| Jun 27th, 2003 10:39 AM | ||
| VinceZeb | They should have the information available, but it wont change many people's minds. | |
| Jun 27th, 2003 10:32 AM | ||
| mburbank |
Larry Elder can demonstrate his support of an embattled A&F by patronizing them and wearing their fashions. Or, he could buy clothes and give them away to young white fans like you. You should write him. He doesn't have to. If A&F has a good business plan nd a reliable marketting strategy, they should be fine in a free market. If not, too bad for them. If they do not list themselves as an equal opportunity employer, they probably won't loose the suit. If they do, I'll be happy to discuss the ramifications. I just think it's nice that people who buy their products now have more information about what the company is like. Some consumers cre about things like that. |
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| Jun 27th, 2003 10:10 AM | ||
| VinceZeb | But that is different, Max, and I'm sure larry elder isn't their target audience, considering he is black. | |
| Jun 27th, 2003 10:05 AM | ||
| mburbank |
I agree. The lawsuit may well fail on the legal merits, but it has certainly gotten the word out that A&F promotes the idea that All American equals white. The lawsuit may well fail on the merits, but how much do you want to bet that the publicity their Whitey image gets is damaging to their sales and forces them to make changes? Once a strategy like this is dragged into the light of day, a certain percentage of folks who may like their product will be put off enough by their tactics to stop shopping their. I personally think that's good. It's also a perfectly fair function of the free market. Now, maybe A&F are totally innocent. If the case against them is obviously frivolous they won't be harmed. Does anyone think Hooters attendance went down when a lawsuit revealed their anti-male hiring bias? If the article's authir likes A&F fashions, and if he finds nothing wrong with them ethically, I strongly recomend he patronize them. Me? I syopped shopping their when the local outlet featured a wall sized poster of two girls and boy under a flanel comforter. One of the girls was holding up a pair of boxer shorts and smiling. I'm sure the models were legally of age, but the photographer and make up artists had worked pretty hard to make them look to be about thirteen or fourteen. Then they marketed thomng underwear for preteen girls. I think they're something pretty gross about their marketing strategy. |
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| Jun 26th, 2003 08:53 PM | ||
| El Blanco |
Why exactly would a black, spanish or asian person want to work somewhere that is so obviously an Aryan Nation recruiting center? These people make me feel genetically inferior. |
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| Jun 26th, 2003 08:46 PM | ||
| Jeanette X |
Thai restaurant=Thai employees Black Entertainment Television=Black employees "All-American" does not equal white. If it was a store that marketed a "classic white look" instead of a "Classic American Look" it would be different. I'm not saying I neccessarily agree with the lawsuit, but the logic in this article is flawed, because minorites are just as American as anyone else. Can't we all just get along? 
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| Jun 26th, 2003 08:22 PM | ||
| VinceZeb |
Is "All-American" un-American? http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33274 Is "All-American" un-American? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: June 26, 2003 1:00 a.m. Eastern By Larry Elder -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- © 2003 Laurence A. Elder Abercrombie & Fitch, a chain that some say markets a "classic American look," faces a lawsuit, filed by a group of "civil-rights organizations," aided by a law firm that specializes in "anti-discrimination cases." Why? The clothier allegedly suddenly either fired or demoted Hispanic and Asian floor salespersons in favor of women possessing this so-called "all-American look" – presumably blonde surfer types. (Note: A friend recently visited an Abercrombie & Fitch store and noted at least two Asian saleswomen.) Abercrombie & Fitch, according to the lawsuit, suddenly terminated an Asian-American floor saleswoman, with three years experience, longer than any other employee in their Costa Mesa, Calif., store. Similarly, management allegedly asked Hispanic workers to either accept non-visible positions, such as stock clerk, or to leave the company altogether. According to an attorney for the plaintiffs, "Through means both subtle and direct, Abercrombie has consistently reinforced to its store managers that they must recruit and maintain an overwhelmingly white workforce. The company has systematically cultivated an all-white 'A&F Look' and then faulted Latino, African American and Asian American applicants, potential recruits and employees for failing to fit this racially exclusive image." The plaintiffs further claim that Abercrombie & Fitch "direct that minority Brand Representatives (salespersons) be fired, moved to a stockroom or overnight shift or have their hours 'zeroed out,' which is the equivalent of termination." One plaintiff said, "Abercrombie's corporate representatives came to our store on an inspection tour, pointed to a picture of a white male model and told the manager that he needed to make the store 'look more like this.' Within two weeks, five Asian American employees, including me, were terminated and an African American Brand Representative was transferred to the night shift at a different store. The store then hired about five white Brand Representatives to replace us." Let's analyze this. A popular Los Angeles Thai restaurant features an all-Thai, female waitressing staff. The restaurant, part of a chain, hires Thai women, some relatives of the owners, but many outside the founding and operating family circle. Meanwhile, Black Entertainment Television hires black hosts, black news anchors, and plays predominantly all-black videos. And, on a cable news /talk-TV show, the host featured a debate on abortion between two ... supermodels – one taking the "pro-life," the other the "pro-choice" position. Supermodels? As a friend and successful Hollywood writer recently put it, "On television, people don't like to watch unattractive people." Somebody ... quick – draft a law to prevent a producer from selecting less-than-expert guests who possess photogenic faces. Yet, though a private organization, Abercrombie & Fitch face government laws preventing it from determining how, for ill or for good, to best meet its perceived marketing niche. Never mind that customers, employees and prospective employees who feel "discriminated against" can refuse to patronize an establishment that refuses to hire those who "look like us." At least one of the un-hired applicants found work at Banana Republic, another clothing establishment that, according to him, "has almost all minorities working there." Does Banana Republic's sales staff result from laws pressuring companies to seek a "diverse work force," or because Banana Republic's marketing niche seeks a "diverse" clientele, or because they simply hired based on their perceived quality of the applicant? In either case, a private business ought to have the right to hire and fire as it pleases, just as employees may quit and customers may refuse to patronize the store. My father, for nearly 40 years, ran a cafe in a heavily Hispanic area in Los Angeles. He found, however, by limiting hiring to non-Spanish speakers, he scared off clientele unable to speak English, and, thus, business suffered. He eventually hired bilingual Latinas, providing comfort to a large segment of his clientele, and watched his business increase. My father worked like a dog, waking up at 4:30 in the morning, to open at 6:00, with his hours from 6:30 to 2:30, and then spent several hours after closing, cleaning and prepping for the next day. The government never knocked on his door to inquire about his lack of employee "diversity." But, it appears, a large business such as Abercrombie & Fitch must live in fear of the federal and state "anti-discrimination" police. Rosa Parks, and others in the civil-rights movement, quite properly objected to discrimination by government – in Parks' case, a municipal, tax-supported bus company. This includes, by the way, public institutions like University of Michigan. Yet, the Supreme Court, in a "split decision," still allows schools to take race in consideration as a factor in admissions. As for Abercrombie & Fitch's alleged motive to fire certain employees, the solution remains a vibrant, thriving, low-tax, low-regulated economy to provide choices and options for workers. Also, Abercrombie & Fitch's hiring practices perhaps create entrepreneurial opportunities for others to cater to the "offended" clientele. We have a word for this. We call it capitalism. |
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