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Aug 18th, 2003 07:42 PM

Abcdxxxx

Kevin : "A minute ago" was on July 31st, eleven days after your last post. At the time, polls were showing a 5% discrepancy for and against the recall. Hey, I also referred to Issa as a candidate in that very same post. I guess that also makes me "out of touch," since I cited something that was a fact in its present tense. Try again, junior..... "

You were being told you were out of touch even 'at the time" and so were the polls. You scoffed that my opinions didn't speak for all of California.... but the polls show my views represent a bit more then 5%. Eat dirt.

I'll explain something to you about the Davis recall. The damage he has done to the State and on some level, even the country, should be an impeachable offense. Here's why. When you look at the situation with the recent East Coast blackout, it has it's seeds in the Gray Davis office. Pg & E failed to block several initiatives to allow independent utility companies the right to service customers, giving people the right to chose who they pay their electric bill to. Somehow, voters have won the right and still Pacific gas and Electric has blocked it. They also made threats, that if they didn't get money from the State to build new power plants, grids, etc. that there would be power shortages. Sure enough, there were outages, rolling blackouts to "ease the system", and Pg &E got what it wanted in the end. It was extortian, and Davis was an accomplice. On top of it, California customers were upcharged for services they were already paying for, and PG & E was basically sending bills for random amounts.

So now you have the same thing happening with utility companies, on a larger national level...and thanks to Davis, there is a precedence for it. Everything you're hearing as part of this "investigation" on what went wrong, are familiar to Californians. This week PG & E announced that it wasn't an overload that caused their blackouts, it was in fact, operator error.

Obviously there's more to this, but my point here is that this runs FAR deeper then partisan politics, and a lot of Californians do want Davis out .... and that's always been my point.

Aug 15th, 2003 12:05 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Clip from http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...call15-ON.html :

"Schwarzenegger's growing campaign staff is going Hollywood with another possible adviser, actor Rob Lowe, the Los Angeles Times reported Friday. The longtime Democratic activist and former "West Wing" star is a friend of Schwarzenegger and his wife, Maria Shriver.

Citing unnamed sources close to the campaign, the Times reported the couple had asked Lowe to take an as-yet-undefined senior campaign position.

Bonnie Reiss, a campaign strategist, told the newspaper, "I've met with Rob and I will be working with him." A Lowe spokesman was unavailable for comment."

I guess the market for good consultants is a little dry these days. They're probably all already running for governor.

Aug 15th, 2003 01:29 AM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Look California is and has been a circus for a long time. I'm not big on anarchy, but a little bit of a shake up isn't a bad thing. This isn't the first recall in history, and there is a playbook.

It's the first recall in a while, and California is regarded as having the worst recall policy out of all the other states. The states that don't even bother with one do so for good reasons....

Quote:

Elected officials deserve to have the ground beneath them shaken and stirred a bit.

This used to be the threat of losing during the next election cycle. Like I've said previously, the recall process undermines the democratic process. If every elected official had to constantly fear pissing off a wealthy opponent or suffer a recall, our officials would be even MORE dominated by fickle public opinion polls. They'd be scared to use the discretion they were entrusted with.

Quote:

You may not understand or approve the methods and reasons for getting Davis out, but I assure you they're not a bunch of cry baby spoiled sports with a disregard for the democratic process. You don't have to believe me, but if you read or watch California media, then you'll get an ear full to prove my point. Perhaps it's a state so desperate that it's not at all scared of this process. It's the most corrupt state since Rhode Island.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The alternatives are no better than the problem. You can speculate on which state is worse, but California is not unique in her corruption throughout history.

Quote:

Kevin - a minute ago you were arguing that the margin of support for and against Davis was a slight 5%... read the current polls and you'll realize how out of touch you are.

"A minute ago" was on July 31st, eleven days after your last post. At the time, polls were showing a 5% discrepancy for and against the recall. Hey, I also referred to Issa as a candidate in that very same post. I guess that also makes me "out of touch," since I cited something that was a fact in its present tense.

Try again, junior.....

Quote:

who gives a fuck that you have a better understanding of the process then most, or what your work experience is.... because apparently all that's done is mislead you from a clear outlook on this situation.

You've yet to offer the "clarity" of your perspective. "Hey! California sucks balls anyway! We should be weird, heck, we're SUPPOSED to be weird!!" Wonderful use of reason...

Quote:

go back to asking if anal sex can get you pregnant in the loveline forum.

I've never raised this question, but if this is a come on, well my answer is no.

Aug 12th, 2003 11:20 AM

kellychaos

Like Conan O'Brien said, "The California gubernatorial race is so bizzarre, it doesn't need any jokes to be said about it. It provides it's own." (Paraphrased).

Aug 11th, 2003 06:29 PM

Abcdxxxx

Look California is and has been a circus for a long time. I'm not big on anarchy, but a little bit of a shake up isn't a bad thing. This isn't the first recall in history, and there is a playbook. Elected officials deserve to have the ground beneath them shaken and stirred a bit. You may not understand or approve the methods and reasons for getting Davis out, but I assure you they're not a bunch of cry baby spoiled sports with a disregard for the democratic process. You don't have to believe me, but if you read or watch California media, then you'll get an ear full to prove my point. Perhaps it's a state so desperate that it's not at all scared of this process. It's the most corrupt state since Rhode Island.

Kevin - a minute ago you were arguing that the margin of support for and against Davis was a slight 5%... read the current polls and you'll realize how out of touch you are. who gives a fuck that you have a better understanding of the process then most, or what your work experience is.... because apparently all that's done is mislead you from a clear outlook on this situation. go back to asking if anal sex can get you pregnant in the loveline forum.

Aug 11th, 2003 12:23 AM

imported_Hollycaust

LMAOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo

"...And when I am elected, those signs at Disneyland that say "You must be THIS tall to ride" [gestures over head] will be consigned to the dustbin of history along with "Whites Only" drinking fountains and other discredited philosophies. [pounds fist on podium] Their day is over."

Aug 10th, 2003 12:05 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Poor sniffles, and what exactly are you doing?? It's you who has been arguing all along that 1 million signatures proves how much people in California want to get rid of Davis.

I'm not telling people to like Davis, what I am telling people is that they elected him a year ago, and there should be a certain degree of respect for the democratic electoral process. Now I know, you'll say that Davis has ruined California ALL ON HIS OWN, and cheated his way into office. This strikes me more as unsubstantiated speculation and over-zealous exaggeration on your part, but we both know how prone you are to this behavior.

Now please, forgive my own condescension, but mine is at least warranted. As I have already stated, I've participated in ballot initiative campaigns, and they tend NOT to be as "purely democratic" as your teary eyed rants would presume.

Quote:

Gasp. America the land of the free - where anyone with $3,500 and some signatures can run for office ... what a horrible outrage.... the system will surely fail now....we used to have such good candidates before this recall talk came along... what happened to Bradley, and =Bono, and Eastwood, and Reagan? Those were some good candidates!

Hehe, you're really a clever kid, because when you can't handle an argument, you like to rant and fuddle the points made. Here, let me help you out.

Critics of the recall are not merely criticizing it b/c it allows silly candidates to get on the ballot. It DOES however allow up to ONE-HUNDRED candidates on the ballot. Now, since this race won't be a run-off, that means the winner on a ballot with so many candidates will have won by a fairly small plurality. So, I realize you love this recall, I realize you sit up at night debating whether to vote for the Terminator, Gary Coleman, Mike Savage, Larry Flynt, or maybe even that sumo wrestler, and that's fine. I'm happy for you. But what I thus want you to admit is that you don't really care about democracy, and how few people like Gray Davis is in fact irrelevant to you. You don't want to vote for a new governor, you want to vote against the real one.

And as for the comments you made on the quality of candidates, that's not entirely the point either (try to follow along junior). Much like other recall critics, I have no problem with folks like Arnold Schwarzenegger running for governor. In a regular election cycle, voters would have the opportunity to become intimately aware of where all the candidates stand on issues. THIS election will be a sprint. Arnold already has enough free press, he doesn't even NEED to spend millions on plastering his face all over California. But he will anyway. He will purposely come across as ignorant to the political system, because that implies some kind of "purity," separating him from the inately "corrupt" California government. He will stick to purely populistic reform talk, almost completely devoid of real substance.

Arnold aside, lets also not forget the other circus like things going on. People who aren't even serious about campaigning, Gary Coleman and Mike Savage, but who are very serious about contributing to an already bloated ballot. One $0.99 store is searching for a 99 year old Californian to run for governor. Great publicity for their store, I guess.

Right now, it looks as if after the recall has gone through, and millions of tax payer dollars have been spent, you may have Arnold as your governor, or perhaps Cruz Bustamante. So when it's all said and done, you may have an inexperienced, rich actor as your governor, or the Lt. Gov. of Satan himself. Is it all worth it?

Aug 8th, 2003 03:45 PM

Vibecrewangel

ARGH

I think we need a Royal Rumble style battle to decide this. It would be like the WWF in the good old days......6 men trying to toss Arnold out of the ring. Gary dropping to all fours as someone is pushed backwards and trips over him in a good old fashioned school yard bump. Feinstein outside the ring in a tight leather mini yelling profanities at the assembled mob.

This could work.

See.....this is what happens when your sister comes to visit and finds pictures of you in a tight leather mini yelling profanities at a the assembeled mob in a wrestling ring. She actually took some to show the kids she works with what her older sister does for fun. I think I should be embarassed. I'm not. But I think I should be.

Aug 8th, 2003 10:04 AM

mburbank

What?!? And take MONEY for what I do? How terribly crass.

Here's a fun new wrinkle for recall fans. Got this from a FAQ in Slate

"Who decides what order the candidates' names will appear in?

On all California ballots, candidates are grouped by party, then listed in randomized alphabetical order. The randomization process (which involves film cartridges in a lottery-style contraption) might determine, for example, that all candidates whose last names start with the letter "H" will be listed first. But even within the H's, names will be further randomized according to the second letter, and then the third, and so on. Which means hypothetical candidate Hzyzitz might be listed before her hypothetical rivals Hzan and Hart, and recall voters searching through countless names won't have an alphabetical order to guide them. "

So.... Voters will need to find their candidate of choice in potentially 500 or more randomly listed names!

If you are a Californian and you mean to vote, bring comfortable shoes, a lawnchair and a good book.

Aug 8th, 2003 09:55 AM

sspadowsky

Max should be on The Daily Show.

Aug 8th, 2003 09:15 AM

mburbank

Well, I just want to say, I'm pretty certain at this point that the degree of chaos generated by this recall is BOUND to help California's budget crisis. I mean, we've tried experience, and look where it got us. I think the only rational solution is compelet, total inexperience, and I can only hope the least experiened candidate gets the job.

Give the people a choice, baby! Like they had, what, a year ago? And if this new gov screws up, recall them too! And the next guy! I say we start a recall campaign the moment the next guys elected! Term limmits of a month! How much can you screw up in a month? $3,500 and 65 signatures? Fuck that! Compile all California's phone books and make that the ballot! Or save money and everybody just write in whoever! And why should it be just Californians voting? Their economy is HUGE, it effect the hole country, I want a damn piece of this. I'm either going to vote for me or that Frog what used to be on the sugar smacks box. I mean, can a cartoon frog do a worse job than Davis?

Aug 8th, 2003 02:07 AM

Abcdxxxx

Kevin - Prentention...who cares. Condescending...very. If you want to pretend you're having a dialogue by telling people what they think then you should stand in front of a mirror and save the bandwidth.

Gasp. America the land of the free - where anyone with $3,500 and some signatures can run for office ... what a horrible outrage.... the system will surely fail now....we used to have such good candidates before this recall talk came along... what happened to Bradley, and =Bono, and Eastwood, and Reagan? Those were some good candidates!

Aug 7th, 2003 03:17 PM

mburbank

GAR COLEMAN! HE'LL FIGHT FOR THE LITTLE GUY!

Aug 7th, 2003 02:35 PM

Miss Modular

Gary Coleman's agenda.

Quote:

Point One: Gary hates politicians!

If there's one class of people Gary Coleman despises, it's career politicians who play games with our tax dollars, while the little guy gets diddly-squat. If elected, he promises to give those Sacramento fat cats what for. "I'd kick in the ass every member of the House that had more than two secretaries," he snarls. "Because that's a waste of public funds. I believe that public service means just that: service. And I'd kick the ass of everyone who had their little pet projects and issues that had nothing to do with keeping California solvent and attracting corporations here." When this newspaper told him that during the recent budget deadlock, members of the state legislature were seen smoking cigars and drinking what appeared to be expensive Scotch on the capitol building balcony, Gary wigged out and vowed to "find them and put my size four-and-a-halfs so deep into their colon!"

Sounds like a plan!

Aug 7th, 2003 12:12 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

And must I remind everyone that RONALD REAGAN was ALSO an actor...!? It's true! And look how well that turned out!!

I've got a good feeling about all of this.....

Aug 7th, 2003 11:28 AM

mburbank

I'm also changing my mind. This recall including actors succsesful, has been, never been and pornographic has reached the level of art.

And unlike some of you, I have ALWAYS favored publicly funded art.

Aug 7th, 2003 02:52 AM

KevinTheOmnivore

I take it all back, this recall sounds great. Gary Coleman has entered the race.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...idate.coleman/

Aug 7th, 2003 02:13 AM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

Jeez kid, you said this is "wrong" with a clear cut judgement of the situation. Black and white.

Jeez shithead, when have you actually disputed my arguments against it? When you list the positives to a bad alternative, you can call me "black and white." Until then, pretentious remarks like calling me kid will simply reinforce the the obvious point that you're in fact clueless.

Quote:

When did I say it's right? I understand and agree with it, and I can argue for those who support it..... but that doesn't mean I signed the fucking thing. I didn't. I can see the downsides of this thing, but I am excited about the possible upsides.... like a return of Governor Moonbeam, or a Larry Flynt world where everything is legal again like in the olden west days.

HA HA HA!!! ABC ISN'T A SOULLESS TWIT! HE HAS HUMOR! HE ISN'T AN ANDROID!!

Fact is, you would make Davis walk the plank if that was the alternative presented. You're excited. You love it. You're a happy little boy.

The "upsides" are what, by the way?? The Terminator or Mike Savage as governor....?

Quote:

So you can stamp your feet like a little baby and talk about how wrong it is. I just find it interesting that it's okay to talk domestic politics in such black and white terms, but not okay to discuss international issues with the same distinct view point. You wouldn't know flexible if you were reading a plastikman comic,

THANKS DAD! Hey, when you prove how being critical of a recall that's the political joke of the year shows a lack of flexibility, get back to me. I've supported changing the election to make it more fair, whereas you've supported, well, nothing other than the recall. Maybe a mob with torches would be your next prefered option.

Hey, watch your feet, your sweeping generalizations are gonna take us all out, sport. Try again.

Aug 7th, 2003 01:15 AM

Abcdxxxx

Kevin "I'm not at all, in fact it's you who could care less about the consequences of recalling the man. I've even said I'd agree with the recall were it done IRV style. It's in fact you who show know flexibility, nor any common sense, on this whole matter. "

Jeez kid, you said this is "wrong" with a clear cut judgement of the situation. Black and white. When did I say it's right? I understand and agree with it, and I can argue for those who support it..... but that doesn't mean I signed the fucking thing. I didn't. I can see the downsides of this thing, but I am excited about the possible upsides.... like a return of Governor Moonbeam, or a Larry Flynt world where everything is legal again like in the olden west days. So you can stamp your feet like a little baby and talk about how wrong it is. I just find it interesting that it's okay to talk domestic politics in such black and white terms, but not okay to discuss international issues with the same distinct view point. You wouldn't know flexible if you were reading a plastikman comic,

Aug 6th, 2003 03:51 PM

Zebra 3

- Don't forget boys and girls that it's tonight on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno that Ah-nuld will announce if he'll be a candidate for Governor of California. It's seems that the news was already leaked a few days ago, and he along with his family have decided not to enter politics, and can you really blame him.

Aug 6th, 2003 09:53 AM

mburbank

Anyone know how they're doing the actual ballots? How many pages? Alphabetical? By Party?

In paper alone this is going to end up costing more than estimated.

If this is a simple Plurality, does anyone want to start a 'futures market' in number of lawsuits? Number of recounts? How about a tri fecta and pick the highest court any of the lawsuits makes it to?

Aug 6th, 2003 01:52 AM

KevinTheOmnivore

This is the most recently updated list of candidates at www.politics1.com:

John Birke (D) - Attorney & '96 State Sen. Nominee
Audie Bock (D) - Ex-State Assemblywoman, Teacher & '02 Congressional Candidate
Daniel Brookman (D) - Attorney
Art Brown (D) - Filmmaker
William Carlisle (D) - Attorney
Jeremy Chapman (D) - Cigarette Store Chain VP & Cigarette Tax Repeal Activist
Al Checchi (D) - Ex-United Airlines President & '98 Candidate
Gary Condit (D) - Ex-Congressman & Ex-State Assemblyman
Andrew Davis (D)
Noam Dromi (D) - Branded Entertainment Producer & Film Writer
Hatosha Drumgoole (D)
Fredrick "Rick" Engen (D)
Jesus Escamilla (D) - Senior Utilities Engineer Specialist
Dan Feinstein (D)
Brian Flemming (D) - Writer & Director
Dean Florez (D) - State Sen., Ex-State Assemblyman & Businessman
Larry Flynt (D) - Pornography Magazine Publisher & Casino Owner
Jimmy James Fong (D)
Lorraine "Abner Zurd" Fontanes (D) - Filmmaker
Jose "Pepe" Gomez (D)
Isaac Gorbaty (D)
Joe Guzzardi (D) - Audlt Education Instructor, Newspaper Columnist & Anti-Immigration Activist
Thomas Hall (D)
Marcus Hough (D) - Teacher
Steven Ireland (D)
Tamila Jensen (D) - Attorney
David Johnson (D) - Non-Profit Group Organizer
Alan Kaye (D)
D.E. Kessinger (D)
Kelly Kimball (D)
Matt Lemcke (D)
Gary Leonard (D)
Frank "Mac" Macaluso (D) - Physician & Businessman
Steven Malone (D)
Paul Mariano (D) - Assistant Public Defender & USAF Veteran
John Mortensen (D) - Self-Employed Businessman
David Noel (D)
William John Olson (D)
Georgy Russell (D) - Computer Programmer
Mark Shirilau (D) - Electric Power Systems Engineer & Businessman
William Vaughn (D) - Moraga Town Councilman
Lee Zion (D) - Journalist & Navy Veteran
Danney Ball (R) - Country Music Singer & Frequent Candidate
John Beard (R) - Printing Company Owner
Matt Brady (R)
Fred Brinkley (R)
Milton Brock (R)
Doug "Logan Darrow" Clements (R) - TV Show Producer & Ex-Magazine Publisher
Bob Dole (R)
Ted Dougherty (R)
Elton Gallegly (R) - Congressman & Ex-Simi Valley Mayor
Leigh Greenberg (R)
Hanna "John" Hajjar (R) - Artist
Jim Hoffman (R)
Mike Huber (R)
Mike Huffington (R) - Ex-Congressman, Oil Executive & '94 US Senate Nominee
Darrell Issa (R) - Congressman & Businessman
S. Issa (R)
Michael Jackson (R)
John Keusseyan (R)
Asimo Sondra Lawlor (R)
Robert Lippert (R)
Brian Lister (R)
Tom McClintock (R) - State Sen., Ex-Assembly Republican Whip & '94 State Controller Nominee
Keith Richman (R) - State Assemblyman
Richard Riordan (R) - Ex-Los Angeles Mayor, Retired Businessman & '02 Candidate
Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) - Movie Actor
Bill Simon Jr. (R) - Investment Banker, Charity Director, Attorney & '02 Nominee
Roger Willoughby (R) - Retiree & Frequent Candidate
Anthony Wayne Ford (AIP)
Ron Gulke (AIP) - Electrical Contractor, Farmer, '74 Congressional Candidate & '02 Nominee
Diane Templin (AIP) - Attorney, Anti-Gay Activist & Frequent Candidate
Peter Camejo (Green) - Investment Company Founder, '76 SWP Presidential Nominee & '02 Nominee
Jack Hickey (Libertarian) - Research Scientist, Sequoia Health Care District Commissioner & Navy Veteran
Dale Ogden (Libertarian) - Actuarial Consultant & Frequent Candidate
Ned Roscoe (Libertarian) - Cigarette Store Chain President & Cigarette Tax Repeal Activist
Lee Chauser (PFP) - Teacher
Jan Tucker (PFP) - Private Investigator & Frequent Candidate
C.T. Weber (PFP) - State Employee, Union Activist, Ex-State Party Chair & '98 State Controller Nominee
Angelyne (Independent) - Entertainer & Billboard Self-Promoter
Austin Alexander (Independent)
Mohammad Arif (Independent) - Website Publisher
Tom Benigno (Independent) - Retired Farmer, Ex-Grocery Store Owner & Frequent Candidate
Jerry Brown (Independent) - Oakland Mayor, Ex-Governor, Ex-State Democratic Chairman & Attorney
John Burton (Independent) - Attorney
Mary Carey (Independent) - Porn Movie Actress
Christy Cassel (Independent)
Dennis Conn (Independent) - Retiree, Community Activist & Frequent Candidate
Ron Friedman (Independent) - Radiologist
Gallagher (Independent) - Comic Performer
Leo Gallagher (Independent)
Jason Gastrich (Independent) - Baptist Minister & Doctoral Student
Sara Ann Hanlon (Independent)
Ted Hayes Jr. (Independent) - Homeless Activist & Frequent Candidate
Michael Hirt (Independent)
Arianna Huffington (Independent) - Columnist, Author, TV Pundit & Ex-Republican
Travis Kalanick (Independent) - Internet Technology Executive
Tovy Kamine (Independent)
Trek Thunder Kelly (Independent)
Philip "Jon" Kok (Independent)
Chuck Kovacic (Independent)
James Kurka (Independent)
Tim Lanzilotta (Independent)
Shu Yih Liu (Independent)
Ben Lofstedt (Independent)
Ed Manderfield (Independent) - Computer Consultant
Jack Meeks (Independent) - Retired Teacher & Nevada County School Board Member
Jerry Morissette (Independent) - Interstate Rest Stop Caretaker & Navy Veteran
Bill Murray (Independent)
William Pratt (Independent) - Recent High School Graduate
Michael Savage (Independent) - Radio Talk Show Host & Author
Brian Tracy (Independent) - Motivational Speaker & Consultant
Michael Wozniak (Independent) - Private Investigator & Retired Police Officer
Steve Young (Independent)

Aug 5th, 2003 05:11 PM

imported_Hollycaust

Listen, once I pull some strings, Larry Flynt will be in office. Good Day!

Aug 5th, 2003 05:06 PM

KevinTheOmnivore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abcdxxxx

you're pretty black and white about this gray davis issue.

I'm not at all, in fact it's you who could care less about the consequences of recalling the man. I've even said I'd agree with the recall were it done IRV style. It's in fact you who show know flexibility, nor any common sense, on this whole matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinceZeb

They are black and white about the issue because a tax-and-spend liberal idiot is the one being put to the chopping block.

This is untrue. I have no sympathy for Gray Davis, and if it were the other way around I'd be just as bothered by the process.

Quote:

They love the Consitution and the rule of law until it works against someone they like.

This is like fucking American politics 101. You certainly haven't gotten any brighter during your hiatus.....

Aug 5th, 2003 11:29 AM

mburbank

Is it work to be as stupid as you are, or do you just sort of relax into it?

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