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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| Aug 14th, 2003 04:31 AM | |||
| Sethomas |
Vox, that website didn't refute any of the points I made. It doesn't make sense to say that all the blood was ink, because a biological examination of the blood was done in the first place confirming it to be human type A/B. Blood doesn't always dry the same color, it depends on one's level of iron. That article didn't even touch the issue of the negative imagery, which is a huge fucking deal. It says that the blood shouldn't have flowed downwards, which ignores the fact that it would have stopped flowing at all shortly after death. And still, that article claims it is the product of the 14th century. Look at any example of 14th century art and try to convince me that painting methodology existed to portray facial depth as seen in the image. Accurate portrayal of the face didn't come about until the late 1400s, and it took even longer to hit France. Being such an extreme historical anomaly, saying that the Shroud is a fake requires no less faith than saying it's real. |
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| Aug 14th, 2003 12:33 AM | |||
| CaptainBubba | So your saying that your explanation is more legitamte than mine? Why? What evidence do you have supporting your explanation that I don't have for mine? | ||
| Aug 14th, 2003 12:17 AM | |||
| O71394658 |
That's where we don't see eye-to-eye. I DO most definitely fucking understand what caused it. Because you don't believe in my explanation, you don't see my explanation as a viable option...or just another silly option out of INFINITE possiblities. |
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| Aug 14th, 2003 12:08 AM | |||
| CaptainBubba |
because Mareleshina, a bowl of mystical clam chowder from galaxy z flapped her wings 345609 times. Get what I'm saying now? If you don't understand what caused it then you should leave it at that. Making assumtions solves nothing, and though saying god did it may seem like a viable solution its just as useful as my explanation provided above. |
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| Aug 14th, 2003 12:06 AM | |||
| O71394658 | You see, bro, you say there are an infinite number of ways to explain it...then give me one. Explain it for me. What biological law that we don't yet know about has prevented the flesh, exposed to all the biological and chemical processes of the atmoshphere and the earth, from deteriorating. Why did a piece of bread turn into a human heart in front of hundreds of people? I'd love to hear one of your infinite explanations. :/ | ||
| Aug 14th, 2003 12:03 AM | |||
| CaptainBubba |
The point is that there are infinite other ways to explain it if you choose to just decide on an answer that you're just going to make up. You might as well say you did it. |
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| Aug 13th, 2003 11:58 PM | |||
| O71394658 |
Hahaha. Quote:
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| Aug 13th, 2003 11:58 PM | |||
| CaptainBubba |
No, it can't detect gravitational waves. I can detect gravity at home with a scale.  Besides, gravity is a highly debated subject of the scientific world which still hasn't been even nearly explained to any sufficient extent to gaurentee any absolute conditions concerning it in the context of the whole universe. Much like light. There is no law of gravitational waves. It is still extremely open to scientific attempts to prove/disprove it, as is every other facet of science. Quote:
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| Aug 13th, 2003 11:52 PM | |||
| VinceZeb | Yeah, just like that huge ass laser seen here (http://www.ligo-wa.caltech.edu/) that can't even PRODUCE EVIDENCE OR DETECT THAT GRAVITY EXISTS! I guess since science can't prove gravity's existance, gravity can't exist. | ||
| Aug 13th, 2003 11:44 PM | |||
| CaptainBubba |
Quote:
Ok I'm gonna try to explain this as simply as I can: If something occurs which we can't explain with any modern science or logic that does not explain what caused it. Your assumption that it must be your idea of god that did it is pulled from absolutely nowhere. There is no correlation. Its like making up a fiction story. It has no relavance to the real world. For all you know, since we don't know what caused it, it could be, as I said before, anything "supernatural". As for your quoted statement: I'm saying it makes no sense to claim it was your idea of god because there is nothing to suggest that it was. The burden of proof lies with those who attempt to say something is. If you provide no reason for it to be your god then I can rightfully say that you have given no reason why it is your god that performed the miracle. Quote:
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| Aug 13th, 2003 11:09 PM | |||
| O71394658 | If you claim that I can't claim it was God, then you have to show me how it wasn't. Give me an example of a supernatural event which has been explained away... | ||
| Aug 13th, 2003 10:13 PM | |||
| CaptainBubba |
That just means we don't know what caused it. You can't infer anything from that with any degree of certainty besides the fact that we don't know what caused it. This is your line of thought if you belive god is responsible for the apparent miracles: Science and logic cannot explain them at this time ~ It must be my very specific explanation which I've concieved without the use of any scientific or logical thought. |
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| Aug 13th, 2003 09:41 PM | |||
| O71394658 |
Quote:
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| Aug 13th, 2003 09:33 PM | |||
| george |
i think of god sort of as the well spring of all things that are aware in the universe, as well as his being the universe itself. pretty much a creature nothing like us at all physically, with the "created in his imimage" sort of thing being our sentient nature. and that our existence in defiance of all the rest of creation (we create, while the universe is always seeking entrophy) is more than miracle enough. |
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| Aug 13th, 2003 09:32 PM | |||
| CaptainBubba |
Quote:
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| Aug 13th, 2003 09:29 PM | |||
| Zero Signal |
"It means 'to insist on what is true as a social obligation.' This is what Atheists For Human Rights will do in our struggle to be religion-free." ---from atheistsforhumanrights.org So, these atheists are going to insist THEIR ideology over the religious ones. How does that make them better humans? And what the fuck struggle are they baggling about? If they are atheists, are they not already religion-free? They become what they hate and try to shove that down the masses throats. Yay for them!
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| Aug 13th, 2003 09:17 PM | |||
| O71394658 |
That's where faith comes into play. The main point being, something greater than you made it happen. |
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| Aug 13th, 2003 08:51 PM | |||
| CaptainBubba |
The thing about miracles: You assume that your god did it. Just because it happened and just because it can't currently be explained doesn't give any indication of the cause of the miracle. It could be because of Zeus. Its could be because of God. It could be because of a magical plastic model of a table with little googly eyes glued on to it that has a 100 ft. tail and speaks Portugese. |
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| Aug 13th, 2003 08:04 PM | |||
| george |
mmiracle: someteen billion years ago, some event cause the universe to begin. throughout that time span, every tiny little piece of the universe had to be moved just right for you to come into existence. weird. even without a god, the fact that I exist is a freakin miracle, and i suck. |
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| Aug 13th, 2003 07:34 PM | |||
| The_voice_of_reason |
http://www.atheistsforhumanrights.org/shroud.htm I remember watching The Discovery Channel and they proved that the red in the shroud was ink, not blood. |
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| Aug 13th, 2003 07:10 PM | |||
| O71394658 | I think they used some sort of new dating for the Shroud, and it turned out to be accurate. Something to do with analyzing the threads... | ||
| Aug 13th, 2003 07:05 PM | |||
| Sethomas | Only on special occasions. Like St. Peter. | ||
| Aug 13th, 2003 07:01 PM | |||
| AChimp | I thought the Romans traditionally crucified people upside-down. :/ | ||
| Aug 13th, 2003 06:34 PM | |||
| Sethomas |
Zero, I know that nails would work perfectly well through both areas. You missed my point, which was that somebody growing up seeing the nails portrayed through the hands wouldn't have gone and made a fake shroud showing them go through the wrists. From all sources I've seen, even those that say the Shroud is a hoax, they demonstrate that the image details severe beating and the wounds of the thorns. If you were expecting to see the thorns themselves on the image, that's counter-intuitive because Joseph of Arimathea would have removed the crown out of respect for the body. A dead body wouldn't appear swelled due to beating because the fluids would dissipate back into the body after death. |
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| Aug 13th, 2003 06:18 PM | |||
| ScruU2wice |
there are miracles for every religon, i mean just type "Miracles of..." any religon into google and itll pop out numerous sites. I think people just don't feel like debunking many of these  But i dont think your right about true faith only being without any sign of god. If we had no signs of god overtime we would forget or refuse to believe He exists... |
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