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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| Apr 5th, 2004 03:22 PM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore | The Germans were more maliable, because they were crushed and demoralized. There's a different kind of zeal, IMO, with Iraq. | ||
| Apr 5th, 2004 01:59 PM | |||
| Ant10708 | I think we'd have a far better chance at success if we rebuilt the country like we did with Germany after WW2 but we are going to rush it and thats going to be one of our biggest mistakes I think. | ||
| Apr 5th, 2004 01:50 PM | |||
| Brandon |
Quote:
Also, if we were forced to take total control due to the chaos, it would still be better than rule under Saddam Hussein. |
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| Apr 5th, 2004 12:24 PM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
I don't think we're going to let that happen. I believe Iraq, today, is still better than it was under Hussein, primarily because things CAN improve now, whereas the upside to life in a totalitarian regime was pretty low. As I've said before, I hope we can get more of an international presence in Iraq ASAP... |
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| Apr 5th, 2004 12:01 PM | |||
| mburbank |
Maybe, maybe we could find the killers, though I doubt it. And then aybe, maybe we could find some of the folks who actually, physically mutilated the corpses. Maybe we could prosecute them. But what do you do about the cheering mob? How do you 'pacify' children who danced with joy at seeing their enemy destroyed? How do you establish democracy at gunpoint? This is a sinkhole. I don't see any way we can make this better. This is what we're going to hand sovreignighty to on June 30? And if it collapses into complete anarchy and we are left with the choice of cutting and running or taking power again, will we still be able to say they are better off now than with Hussein? W keeps insisting that a free Iraq will stabalize the middle east. Okay, for the sake of argument, sure. But what if instead of a free Iraq we get an anarchy zone there similar to the Congo. What will that do to the middle east? |
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| Apr 4th, 2004 10:30 PM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore | Right, they understood the risks, and yes, they were basically hired thugs. We've already covered this in another thread. And regardless of what they were doing, they didn't deserve to have their bodies dragged and hung from a bridge. That's not "a part of war," that's barbarism. | ||
| Apr 4th, 2004 10:09 PM | |||
| derrida |
The contractors were mercenaries employed by the private security firm, Blackwater USA. (www.blackwaterusa.com) Not equivocating here, but they obviously knew the risks involved (and were undoubtedly receiving six-figure salaries for their work) and to be sure, they were not in the business of constructing hospitals and schools.[/url] |
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| Apr 4th, 2004 05:31 PM | |||
| Brandon | Ok, ok, fair enough. | ||
| Apr 4th, 2004 05:29 PM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Furthermore, there's a distinct difference between Alterman and O'Reilly. Eric Alterman preaches to the proverbial choir. The idiots who worship him most likely already believe in what he said. O'Reilly, even though he carries a comnservative audience, is one of the highest rated talk programs on television. He has a huge, broad, cross-cutting audience, the kind Alterman will never have. With that comes responsibility on two parties. One is on O'Reilly, who ddamn well better choose his words more carefully. He serves as a mouthpiece in this country, and many people take him very seriously. The second burden falls on the audience. Is it necessary to beat up on a fringe character like Alterman? O'Reilly is different. People like him need to be scrutinized for what they say, thoroughly. |
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| Apr 4th, 2004 05:24 PM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
He said, verbatim, "I don't care about the - colonel, I don't care about the people of Fallujah. You're not going to win their hearts and minds. They're going to kill you to the very end. They've proven that. So let's knock this place down." So, at the very least, he is endorsing going in with bulldozers and troops and "knocking this place down," thus leaving everyone in Fallujah homeless. He said he doesn't care about the people of Fallujah. He acknowledged that these people are a lost cause. Does he literally have to say let's build a death camp, or are you capable of reading between the lines? His choice of wording was ignorant and unfortunate, yes, but he clearly doesn't care what happens to the people in this town, and clearly supports destroying the town. What more exactly do you need, Brandon? Your new found cynicism is swell and all, but connecting the retarded comments of Alterman to the damn near barbaric comments made by O'Reilly are two different things. Anybody who says those people deserved to die in Fallugh is an idiot. Anybody who thinks the solution to that problem is destroying the entire town is not only an idiot, but irrational, and dangerous. |
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| Apr 4th, 2004 05:17 PM | |||
| Brandon |
Quote:
I mean, "Final Solution" is a terrible choice of words, but he's never said "let's wipe em all out." |
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| Apr 4th, 2004 05:14 PM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Quote:
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| Apr 4th, 2004 04:56 PM | |||
| Brandon |
EDIT: Doubles 
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| Apr 4th, 2004 04:55 PM | |||
| Brandon |
Honestly, the stereotype that liberals think America is always the villain has some basis in reality. A SEGMENT of pundits and columnists on the FAR left typically have similar, knee-jerk responses whenever a tragedy is inflicted on American soldiers or civilians by foreign aggressors. Rather than ever concede fully to sympathy for the United States, they asterik every article with a "yes, but.." Take Eric Alterman's post-Fallujah tirade, for example: Quote:
A recent post from AlterNet: Quote:
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| Apr 4th, 2004 04:29 PM | |||
| Brandon | Nobody's saying we should kill everyone in Fallujah. Military action doesn't automatically amount to genocide, folks. | ||
| Apr 4th, 2004 02:04 PM | |||
| davinxtk | If you're not with us, you're against us! | ||
| Apr 4th, 2004 01:46 PM | |||
| mburbank |
So you're saying you think it's a good thing that those contractors got killed and mutilated, and you rejoice when Americans die and their bodies are violated? Because those are the only two option here. Either you burn Fallujah to the ground and kill every man woman and child there or you wish you could have tied a dead american body to your car. |
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| Apr 3rd, 2004 01:30 PM | |||
| Buffalo Tom | The hateful pontificating that passes for American political discourse scares the shit out of me. | ||
| Apr 3rd, 2004 10:10 AM | |||
| Protoclown |
We get to be the next Saddam Hussein! Yippie! 
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| Apr 3rd, 2004 09:39 AM | |||
| ranxer |
truly sickening. sieg hiel, its only murder if you consider your enemies to be people 
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| Apr 2nd, 2004 10:38 PM | |||
| derrida |
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| Apr 2nd, 2004 10:07 PM | |||
| Brandon |
Man, Billy really chooses his words carefully, doesn't he? Anyway, here's what he thinks should be done to Fallujah: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,115974,00.html 'It Is Time to Use the Stick' Friday, April 02, 2004 by Bill O'Reilly As we told you last night, the Iraqi town of Fallujah, about 35 miles west of Baghdad, has been the center of terrorism in the Sunni Triangle. This town of 200,000 people continues to kill Americans and celebrate the barbarity. Fox News continues to withhold the graphic pictures of Fallujah citizens stringing up of four dead Americans and dancing them around. You might have seen those pictures in other media. We simply think they're too brutal. Now there is no question the U.S. military should have dealt with Fallujah a long time ago, but there is a continuing hesitation on the part of the Pentagon to confront terrorism in Iraq. As "The Wall Street Journal" points out today in an editorial, not a single one of the thousands of Iraqis detained for attacks on coalition forces has been visibly punished, not one. This is simply bad policy. In order to stabilize Iraq, a carrot and stick approach must be used. 75 percent of the country has now been pacified. The remaining dissenters must be harshly dealt with. Fear can be a good thing. Homicidal terrorists and their enablers must be killed or incarcerated. And their punishment must be an example to others. How do you think Saddam controlled Iraq all these decades? He did it by fear. We can't use his tactics, but we can certainly punish murderers and deprive towns who harbor killers of liberty. "Talking Points" fully expects the U.S. Marines to use maximum force in punishing the Fallujah terrorists. That town should be quarantined, placed under marshal law and a curfew imposed. Any violators of the curfew should be shot on sight. It's obvious that the terrorists in Iraq believe they can murder Americans and get away with it. The Pentagon has not contradicted that belief. It is time to start protecting American soldiers. It is time to use the stick. And that's "The Memo." |
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| Apr 2nd, 2004 08:28 PM | |||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Bill O'Reilly's "final solution" for Fallujah.... Apparently Bill O'Reilly has a "solution" for this, in light of the recent murders. I want to find a official transcript of this to double check, because this is almost too hard to believe. --- From Thursday (4/1/04) night's episode of The O'Reilly Factor: O'REILLY: I don't care about the - colonel, I don't care about the people of Fallujah. You're not going to win their hearts and minds. They're going to kill you to the very end. They've proven that. So let's knock this place down. COWAN: Let's get out of the way and let Iraqis knock it down, so we don't lose any more American lives. O'REILLY: I don't believe - I absolutely don't believe they can do it. General, how do you see it? VALLELY: Well, we've got to do it together. We've go to do it quickly. We've got to sanitize that whole city. And keep in mind, Bill, you set an example when you go in there to do that. And when do you that, you get respect. And that's why you go to be tough. O'REILLY: All right, general, is there any. VALLELY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) clean it up. O'REILLY: .you know it, the colonel knows it. The colonel and I are disagreeing on the tactics, but we know what the final solution should be. Why hasn't the U.S. command done this? And why do they continue to absorb the level of terror that is coming out of -- this isn't a big town. We're not talking about Cincinnati here. Right? It's not a big town? |
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