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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| Sep 4th, 2005 10:25 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx | yeah i agree, they were under staffed, and new orleans has some rough areas.... if we factor in the amount of people just detoxing off some form of narcotic alone, we can presume there was some wild behavior.... but all said it seems like the people did an amazing job policing themselves, and came together. it's inspiring really. Those 1500 cops could have been put to far better use. | |||
| Sep 4th, 2005 03:59 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
I think you're on point about most of this, so there's no need to really debate. The crime and "gang" type stuff supposedly was happening, at least according to the police superintendent. I guess my overall thoughts on this are that New Orleans has/had roughly 1,500 cops. If even every singly one of those cops totally ignore violence and looting, they'd STILL be at an absolute disadvantage in meeting the disaster needs there. Now your talking about a city that already had one of the highest murder rates in the country, and a surging drug problem. It isn't too hard to believe that a degree of "anarchy" has and is going on. With that being said, I think you're right, if needs were met sooner, violence probably would've been pretty isolated (more so than it presumably already is). |
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| Sep 3rd, 2005 06:33 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx |
I can differentiate between survival and crime. I didn't see the looting of electronics, but I guess it happened. The footage I saw showed peope taking neccessaties...even the clothes and shoes. I don't see much credebility or logic behind subtly criminalizing the victims here...and I think that's what's going on. |
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| Sep 3rd, 2005 04:14 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
You're right, but I don't think the looting and shooting should be ignored, disregarded, or simply considered hearsay. As you noted, we have footage of the looting, we see the conditions, we know people are desperate. it isn't too hard to believe that desperate people are doing desperate, perhaps even criminal things, right? |
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| Sep 3rd, 2005 03:11 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx |
I think rescue workers wanted to get in there and ...rescue. The authorities, and their parent organizations stopped them. You're going into a disaster zone...it's not going to be safe. It's not going to be secure. It's not a matter of preferential treatment. The fears were racially motivated, by people who thought these stories were realistic. Most of the reports defy logic, and if they happened, we should expect details. We have photos of everything, including the looting... but I don't see footage of people dragging out TV's ...and I don't see footage of "crunked out shootouts". I think it's very unlikely it happened on a level that will ever justify "securing the city" as a priority. On the contrary, I see a "rerengade bus driver" who should be a hero. I see a family being stopped in a stolen vehicle, and the Father handcuffed. I heard the mayor saying he was putting 1500 police officers on the ground just to fight crime, not rescue. In the USA, people that were supposed to be rescued and provided for were under military lockdown instead. Why? Because they're Black, and there were rumors of chaos....which in turn created chaos. |
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| Sep 3rd, 2005 02:39 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
I agree with you about the over-hyped "race riot" nonsense. However, in a situation like this, expecting that they should have photos of gunmen, or verifiable proof that gunmen were shooting randomly rather than at choppers, seems a bit much to ask under these conditions. If its people trying to signal for help, ok, but we don't have any way to verify that. So DON'T shoot your guns if you have one...! But I agree on one premise with you-- meet peoples immediate needs, and they won't turn crazy. You're right. About people being frigtened of entering black areas-- I don't doubt that to be true, but I think you're exaggerating the case. These people know their job, and there are a lot of people risking life & limb, dangling from helicopters, pulling people out of danger....whether they're black, white, or whatever. So whereas I think, like you mentioned, that the stories of looting, gun battles, and anarchy are exaggerated, so is the notion that these things were simply some contrived divergence on the part of mildly racist aid workers. |
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| Sep 3rd, 2005 02:29 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx |
AP has now reported that at least some of the shooting was from people stuck in their attics trying to get help. Again, that report at the hospital is hearesay... the gunmen haven't been identified, and there are no photographs...they just hear shots. How do we know it's not friendly fire due to miscommunication, and paranoia between the Police, and other armed authorities? We don't, just like I can't say it wasn't a drug addict trying to get morphine... but they're acting like there was a race riot going on, and it's garbage. First reponders needed an excuse to cover their ass for the late response, and their own fears of the demographic. I'm sure a few people were cracked out or just being rowdy cause they're screwed in the head, but the city wasn't overrun. There are people who just don't believe that many Black people can be gathered in one place without unruly behavior. Red Cross refused to go in. Evacuations were suspended at times. People who make it their jobs to go into battle zones and provide aid, refused to provide aid! |
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| Sep 3rd, 2005 12:31 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Quote:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/09/02/katrina.hospitals/ That mentions two shooting incidents at Charity. Is it heresay? I dunno, but it certainly doesn't sound to me like the rescue workers there are looking for a "divergence." |
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| Sep 3rd, 2005 12:19 PM | ||||
| swimini |
what a tragedy. I was left utterly speechless by much of the news footage. especially the footage showing a helicopter landing and ditching some bottles of water and food, no one got out of the helicopter and no attempt was made to organise the supplies. A mother with a 7 week old baby got nothing. A few blocks over the local police were aiming their guns at looters. what the fuck? I understand the nature of the disaster made it difficult to get to people, but there was aid on the ground in Indonesia 48 hours after the tsunami, America is the superpower, why isn't it acting like one? I feel so sorry for those poor people, they lost family members, their homes, and businesses. And with the lack of help they received, they must feel crushed and betrayed by the goverment. |
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| Sep 3rd, 2005 11:08 AM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx | It's all rumor. I'd love to read something that substantiates all the sniper talk. Seems it's just a divergence. I can't find any reports that aren't based on heresay. | |||
| Sep 3rd, 2005 05:02 AM | ||||
| CaptainBubba | Really from everything I've heard it sounds like it would be worth a few people's time to travel to New Orleans with arms and give people weapons to defend themselves. Recently the prison there was taken over by inmates and people are being held hostage. If the government can't rectify this then the people should be able to. This is kinda a textbook example of justification of the second amendment, but with just the crooks armed and no vigilantes its awfully grim. :/ | |||
| Sep 2nd, 2005 11:17 PM | ||||
| sadie |
i was crying today on the way home from work after climbing inside an imaginary survivor's skin. it's hard enough trying to be a good mom when it's about instilling respect and self-control. it's tears at me inside to imagine being in that devastation. nowhere to sleep. no food to eat. no shoes on their feet. and people gone lunatics with big guns. a guy was on npr, saying he'd been sleeping on his grandparents' tomb to avoid the cottonmouths slithering around the unearthed caskets everywhere. |
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| Sep 2nd, 2005 10:51 PM | ||||
| nothing4buddha | I agree, donate what you can. I donated 15 to red cross the other day and when i got paid today i donated another 20. A little bit really goes a long way. | |||
| Sep 2nd, 2005 08:12 PM | ||||
| maggiekarp | I don't think it's important how much help you're giving more than another, so much as help is being given. | |||
| Sep 2nd, 2005 07:55 PM | ||||
| VinceZeb |
Quote:
Gotcha. |
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| Sep 2nd, 2005 06:52 PM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx |
Because noboy ever reports from war zones, or sniper shoot outs ever. We've never seen bullets being shot on TV before, I guess. I could be very wrong, but my guess is the hooligans and snipers are more rumor then anything, with some sporadic incidents that the authorities flipped out over - and as a result, they created copycats who wanted in on that action because they're desprate. That reporters & officials weren't able to differentiate between crime and survival makes all claims of unlawful behavior suspect to me. |
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| Sep 2nd, 2005 05:17 PM | ||||
| Sacks |
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| Sep 2nd, 2005 03:37 PM | ||||
| mburbank |
"I think it puts into question all of the Homeland Security and Northern Command planning for the last four years, because if we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?" said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich. When Newt Ginsrich and I agree on something, it's true. That's a law of physics. And Vinth. You make a powerful and persuasive argument for not dropping food and water. The strongest and worst people would grab it and use it for their own profit. What we need in their is some sort of structure to protect the weak from the strong and make sure all the goods are divided based on peoples needs. I think if some people have more goods than others, they should be forced by some system of... I don't know what to call it... to share what they have. |
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| Sep 2nd, 2005 01:35 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore | Then see what's going on locally by you. Maybe a church or firehouse is throwing together a clothing and/or can drive. I'm sure there's at least one can of beans in the cupboard you aint touchin. | |||
| Sep 2nd, 2005 01:19 PM | ||||
| Geggy | i'm already donating enough as i fill up the tank of my car with gas every other day. that leaves me with little left to donate to one of these websites. | |||
| Sep 2nd, 2005 01:07 PM | ||||
| Cosmo Electrolux |
Quote:
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| Sep 2nd, 2005 11:25 AM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore | How would you even be capable of knowing what I've done and will do? You did see the post about links to where you can donate, right? Would you like a copy of my receipt? Will that convince you that I care just as much as you do, Sensei? | |||
| Sep 2nd, 2005 10:56 AM | ||||
| VinceZeb |
Quote:
Wait, that would mean putting money where mouth is located. Something you aren't all that skilled at. |
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| Sep 2nd, 2005 10:54 AM | ||||
| Abcdxxxx | Where are these mobs of people shooting shit up? Because you would think if this was all so rampant, we'd get to see some of it on tv like we're seeing everything else... so I don't buy it... it's just a diversion, to blame the victims trying to survive. | |||
| Sep 2nd, 2005 10:42 AM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
Quote:
We need someone capable, with the instincts of a cougar, and the strength of a bear. The miltary isn't cutting it, nor is the police. No, we need.....a samurai. Nay, a Catholic samurai. Someone who will kick ass, take charge, and simply tell it like it is. But where can we find such a scholar/poet/warrior...? WHERE??? |
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