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Topic Review (Newest First)
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| Jan 6th, 2005 05:04 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
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But seriously Max, I think you might be overstating the severity of the matter. Of course it's important that we highlight the problems in Iraq, and we need to keep harping on them, cuz Lord knows the Republicans won't. BUT, there are large portions of Iraq that have been stabilized, and I think that these latest attacks are a clear indication that these "insurgent" elements simply don't want elections in Iraq. They've beheaded aid workers and have executed Iraqi election workers. They've killed all types of muslims, and routinely fire bomb the tiny Christian/Catholic sects in Iraq. I'd imagine that if there were any Jews dumb enough to be in Iraq right now, they'd probably be dead. These aren't freedom fighters who merely detest American occupation. These are Syrians, Jordanians, and yes, Iraqis who don't want the boat rocked. But I think we need to be careful about what it is they fear-- it's not globalization, or capitalism, or jingoism, or ismism, but rather, it's freedom. And Max.....freedom is on the march. :capital Okay, I went overboard..... |
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| Jan 6th, 2005 04:53 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
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| Jan 6th, 2005 12:45 PM | ||||
| mburbank |
I think the turnout will be very high in Shiite territory and next to non existant in Sunni territory, and could turn an insurgency into civil war. I think an election that can't be monitored isn't an election. I think no election vs. illegitmate election is a very hard call. Do you want your foot crushed by a train or would you rather have really severe kidney stones? Say, which works better for you guys, the rabid rat shoved up your ass or putting your nuts in the waffle iron? Seriously, it's all about you. |
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| Jan 5th, 2005 11:08 PM | ||||
| Stabby |
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How is it supposed to work? That I can't answer. |
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| Jan 5th, 2005 10:15 PM | ||||
| DehydratedPorkMan |
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| Jan 5th, 2005 06:55 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
btw, I actually agree with Blanco 100% on this one. It does no good to delay holding these elections. I think the turnout will be very high, and the latest string of attacks wreaks more of desparation than "insurgency," or whatever they call themselves. Incidentally, I heard on the Daily Show (proceed with caution) that the UN election monitors would be monitoring the election.....from Jordan. Is this true? How the heck is this supposed to work??? |
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| Jan 5th, 2005 06:07 PM | ||||
| KevinTheOmnivore |
DehydratedPorkMan's posts give me a headache. 
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| Jan 5th, 2005 02:06 PM | ||||
| Brandon |
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Or maybe... "WANTED: Sadistic, intimidating thug who follows orders -- real 'Shah material.' Arab preferred, but not necessary. Contact 'Rummy' at www.defenselink.mil if interested." |
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| Jan 5th, 2005 12:08 PM | ||||
| Anonymous | But harmless. | |||
| Jan 5th, 2005 11:58 AM | ||||
| mburbank | Trust me, actors are every bit as repulsive. | |||
| Jan 5th, 2005 11:53 AM | ||||
| Anonymous | Why can't we just kill all the towelheads and replace them with actors? | |||
| Jan 4th, 2005 05:24 PM | ||||
| DehydratedPorkMan |
It's clear, I have no definite answer (does anyone?) so all I can do is just berate because I disprove of the Iraq situation. AND I ALWAYS WILL SO BELITTLING ME FOR IT IS USELESS. Unless of course it helps your self esteem, then by all means go ahead. :D America does NOT need to have in on everybody's problems. Just 'cuz you want to help doesn't mean you'll necessarily do any good. On a sorta related note, does anyone else think India is alright to reject the tsunami aide stuff? |
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| Jan 4th, 2005 05:16 PM | ||||
| mburbank |
I'm not sure what we can do. Postponement won't do anything, your right there, but the question is (and I don't know the answer) which will do more harm? Staus quo or endorsing an obviosly invalid election. I don't agree with the Administration that a 'flawed' election is better than no election at all. It will be more than just flawed, it will be patently illegitimate, and that could make things worse than they already are. We coould see all Sunni's banding with the current insurgency, the Kurds splitting off, Turkey invading Northern Iraq to make war on the indpendent Kurds or Kurds fomenting rebellion in Turkey and the Shiites trying to solidify their election gains with backing from Iraq. Pretty much the same set of reasons Bush senior gave for not invading Iraq. The same goes for power vaccuum in Iraq if we leave. That would be awful, but it's pretty damn bad and getting worse every day, and it's bleeding our economy dry and tieing down our military so we have no serious threat of sustained force for anything else in the world. I think eventually declaring victory and leaving ala Vietnam is the only option we'll have, and it will be a very bad one but we'll have no choice. The question is how many dead folks and how much money before we do. People of all stripes keep saying 'defeat is not an option!'. I disagree. The law of gravity going away is not an Option. Defeat is an eventuality and instead of pretending it can't happen, we ought to be looking for exit strategies. |
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| Jan 4th, 2005 05:13 PM | ||||
| DehydratedPorkMan |
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Do it! |
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| Jan 4th, 2005 05:01 PM | ||||
| El Blanco |
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We are supposed to leave a power vacuum in the Middle East? Is that it? |
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| Jan 4th, 2005 04:59 PM | ||||
| El Blanco |
One little problem with postponement: The insurgents will just go back to where ever they came from. Reload and refresh, and go ballistic again when its getting near the election. Then what? Postpone again? Its no coincidence that the attacks have gotten more intense and more frequent in the last few weeks. I'm not saying that the elections have to happen on time no matter what, but postponement doesn't seem too good an idea either. |
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| Jan 4th, 2005 04:38 PM | ||||
| DehydratedPorkMan |
[quote="I, fuzzbot."]If there is an election, who the hell would go out and vote because they're likely to be killed while waiting in line. quote] EXACTLY! Ya know....America sounds like that one friend everyone has, he's always there and always has an idea for something, but he never really does anything right. They should leave Iraq. It DOESN'T WORK. Oh Canada. |
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| Jan 4th, 2005 02:13 PM | ||||
| imported_I, fuzzbot. |
If there is an election, who the hell would go out and vote because they're likely to be killed while waiting in line. It'll be another set of violent skirmishes. But Bush wants there to be a vote so he'll probably pay a bunch of displaced peoples to go and vote just for the photo opp. It's actually totally irrelevant because no one's been running in Iraq, who the hell can in a war torn country with no money made available to potential candidates. It's utter lunacy though it doesn't surprise me. I don't think they should cancel it, but they should drop the idea for now. Things have to happen in their own time, the US should stabilize Iraq or simply leave after having re-built the infrastructure (and made all their US buddies rich in doing so) to a certain point. They've really dug a massive hole for themselves. In any case, years from now once Iraqi society is no longer threatened by US occupation (cause that's what the insurgents are upset about, but that will never be reported on in the mass media) idealy there would exist a functioning society where people could run for election as they chose, including women, people from differing ethnicities, sects and religions and not under threat of death or violence to run. |
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| Jan 4th, 2005 01:12 PM | ||||
| mburbank |
Will W 'Flip-Flop' on Iraqi Elections Calls are growing to postpone the Iraq election, on account of things being so out of control that voting is a really good way to get dead being a real factor in keeping people from voting. Suppose we get to the point where the entire Iraqi interim government is looking for a postponement. Will we let them ? Not letting them would kind of blow the whole idea of them having that whaddayacallit, sovereighnity. But since an election now could hardly be seen as valid by any party not getting what they want (Say, like the sunnis, since voting in their parts of the country is FAR more hazardous than anywhere else) and an election is pretty likely to lead to outright civil war as opposed to 'insurgency'... Well, make your guess here. Will our deadline go the way of opposition to establishing a 9/11 panel and Condi refusing to testify? Or will W simply insist that a sovereign country do as he says. he could always threaten to liberate them again. |
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