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Oct 15th, 2004 12:51 PM

Ricky Glue

I think that Chojin had quite a number of good points about the election. I easily think that Kerry came out the victor and left Bush in the dust with his disproportioned face (especially his slanty mouth) Anyways, I just find that everytime Bush talks, my ears really hurt like a 92 kbps version of Carrot Top is screaming remotely uninteresting facts about "dialing down the center". Yeah..I'm done with that. :-)

Oct 15th, 2004 01:34 AM

davinxtk

Quote:

Originally Posted by The One and Only...

How many people are willing to believe the blood for oil and war profiteering claims?

How many people are willing to believe that Kerry has communist sympathies and hates Vietnam vets?

Well, let's see. One is an arguably valid claim that's been made for three years running, the other is almost completely transparent electioneering.

*HMMMMM*

Oct 14th, 2004 09:14 PM

Stark

Quote:

Originally Posted by The One and Only...

It's Murray Rothbard, the founder of modern anarcho-capitalism. If anyone deserves to have an avatar with him, it's me.

Let's ask mr. Rothbard what he thinks... he's dead you say?? Well let's ask anyway once he's done rolling like that.

Oct 14th, 2004 08:21 PM

The One and Only...

It's Murray Rothbard, the founder of modern anarcho-capitalism. If anyone deserves to have an avatar with him, it's me.

Oct 14th, 2004 08:19 PM

Sethomas

You don't deserve an avatar depicting the wearing of a bowtie.

Oct 14th, 2004 07:53 PM

The One and Only...

Quote:

Originally Posted by davinxtk

I think he's trying to tell us that liberals run a greater risk of seeming like complete whack jobs.

But that in itself is confusing enough.

Sort of.

Think about it.

How many people are willing to believe the blood for oil and war profiteering claims?

How many people are willing to believe that Kerry has communist sympathies and hates Vietnam vets?

You be the judge.

Oct 14th, 2004 12:13 PM

Zebra 3

Quote:

Being lectured by the president on fiscal responsibility is a little bit like Tony Soprano talking to me about law and order in this country.

- Great line! Kerry's got my vote.

Oct 14th, 2004 08:49 AM

AChimp

I went to a high school that had a special Life Skills department for retarded kids. Everytime they thought they did something right, they would get these big, retarded kid grins on their faces.

I saw that smile on Bush after every single answer he gave.

Oct 13th, 2004 11:46 PM

Anonymous

Tonight's was another solid win for Kerry, definitely. The first half of the debate was just irritating to sit through while both candidates went through the same crap we've heard before and Bush spit out the stuff he was coached to say, but starting with the minimum wage question Bush was caught completely off-guard and started a habit that would last the night of talking about educational reform, which is a crazy thing for him of all people to fall back on. For the first time in the debates, Kerry straight-on answered every question given to him and brought to attention once when the President completely failed to answer (though the minimum wage question was by far the biggest dodge and went uncontested, though it didn't really have to be).

I think that Kerry promising a $7/hr minimum wage is going to get him a fuckload of votes. It was delicious irony to see Bush, leader of the campaign that smeared Kerry for not 'standing for anything,' not just say straight-up that he didn't think minimum wage should be raised, regardless of how unpopular it'd make him seem. So far Bush has outperformed Kerry in every error that he's been accused of.

I was under the impression that the firearm ban was for semi-automatics, not full-automatics such as AK47s. But hey, if it's good enough to fool the President, it's good enough for any of the yokels that would still vote for him after the thrashing he's received in these debates (The part with Kerry saying that he'd have threatened a fight when the ban began to dissolve was a nice touch). The only area in which Bush has 'out-performed' Kerry is in his ability for simple-minded, emotional people to relate to him. But really, the average citizen shouldn't be able to 'relate' to someone on a personal level if that person is going to be in the most major office in our country. It's a position that only a very few are eligible to hold, and ideally the only people that can really should be able to have an honest heart-to-heart with them would be those very same elites. It's nice to feel that you've got 'one of the boys' workin' hard for you in the white house, but that isn't really what's good for the country, just what appeals to simple peoples' emotions. If I wanted to level with a person with the mental faculties of a pig farmer, I'd go join 4H.

Oct 11th, 2004 11:00 AM

AChimp

This comic was posted on Fark today. It made me LOL.

Oct 11th, 2004 10:30 AM

davinxtk

I think he's trying to tell us that liberals run a greater risk of seeming like complete whack jobs.

But that in itself is confusing enough.

Oct 10th, 2004 09:32 PM

AChimp

I'm guessing it has something to do with girls on the bus and the size of his penis.

Oct 10th, 2004 09:16 PM

Zhukov

I for one have no idea where you are going with this.

Oct 10th, 2004 04:31 PM

The One and Only...

You're missing the point. It's all based on the perception of the populace. In responce to the Rove comment, you should know that conservatives can get by with some things liberals can't, just like how liberals have a few aces up their sleeve.

Oct 10th, 2004 03:51 PM

conus

Quote:

The attacks you mentioned are reminiscent of Old Left tactics. Most Americans would probably consider them either outlandishly liberal or based on conspiracy theories.

On the contrary, the attacks I suggested--the style, at any rate-- are more closely reminiscent of Carl Rove. For weeks I've been saying they should learn from him and use his tactics.

As far as conspiracy theories go-- if by that you mean do I believe the elite would consciously persue their own class interests.... Sure. Who wouldn't? It's not exactly black helicopter theory. I don't think it sounds incredible to most Americans that people like the Vice President would use their influence to benefit themselves and their friends.

Oct 10th, 2004 03:02 PM

The One and Only...

Quote:

Originally Posted by conus

What does that mean? And what does it have to do with the Vice President of the United States being a war profiteer? I do understand that Eugene Debs is dead, but doesn't change the facts. Isaac Newton is dead too, but the laws of gravity still apply.

The attacks you mentioned are reminiscent of Old Left tactics. Most Americans would probably consider them either outlandishly liberal or based on conspiracy theories.

And Preech, neoconservatism did somewhat evolve out of the Old Left, what with Trotsky's influence and all, but they aren't the same thing.

Oct 10th, 2004 02:59 PM

Preechr

"Conservatives have plenty of cause to abandon Bush"

Oct 10th, 2004 02:58 PM

Preechr

You wanna talk about dead? Let's take a close look at Conservatism...

Oct 10th, 2004 02:54 PM

Preechr

That's not necessarily true... The OLD left is alive and well. They're called Neo-Conservatives. Clinton & Compassionate Conservativism has pretty much ripped the guts out of what was left of the Democratic Party, which was the 60's hangers on to the unrealistic idea that government programs solve problems efficiently. What was left of the dignity of the idealistic party is now decorated with a heaping pile of shit, courtesy of John Kerry's campaign for POTUS in which he's run as a Republican.

I think the two parties have, in many ways, switched places on the left-right scale, at least temporarily. I don't see us being too far away from something similar to the UK's three-party, Labour dominated system. 4 more years of Bush will cause a split in the Republican party, and the Dems, taking a cue from Kerry's defeat and the likely loss of even more power in the Legislative as well as Judicial branches, will swing back left and take a more activist (and HONEST) stance.

This may be wishful thinking, but I predict a nice little boost to the LP ranks from the soon to be completely disenfranchised fiscally conservative right, and a re-formed DNC that actually supports it's Screamin' Deans, Kachooniks and Darth Naders.

Oct 10th, 2004 02:46 PM

conus

Quote:

You do realize that the Old Left is all but dead, right?

Oct 10th, 2004 02:09 PM

The One and Only...

[quote="conus"]

Quote:

They should use Haliburton more. Use social class. Accuse Cheney and his peers of blood profit.

You do realize that the Old Left is all but dead, right?

Oct 10th, 2004 11:36 AM

conus

Quote:

keep getting in trouble for weighting these debates to favor Bush/ Cheney, but the way I see it, Kerry/ Edwards has to do much more than appear to be a little bit better than the incumbents. They will have to destroy Bush in order to prevail in this election.

They should use Haliburton more. Use social class. Accuse Cheney and his peers of blood profit.

Oct 10th, 2004 11:19 AM

Preechr

William Saleton, from Slate and a big Kerry fan, says Kerry blew it. I agree.

Quote:

...Gibson turned to Kerry. The pitch was hanging there, waiting to be smacked into the upper deck. All Kerry had to do was walk up to the questioner and say, "You just asked the president to name three mistakes. He couldn't name one. He can't correct his mistakes, because he can't see them, even when his own weapons inspector puts it on the front page of the newspaper. You can't change this president. You can only replace him."

Here's what Kerry said instead: "I believe the president made a huge mistake, a catastrophic mistake, not to live up to his own standard, which was [to] build a true global coalition, give the inspectors time to finish their job, and go through the U.N. process to its end and go to war as a last resort." Blah, blah, elaboration, prepositional phrase, caveat, whimper, end.

What's the point of taking notes if you don't use what the other guy says? Is Kerry really listening? Or is he just trying to look like a man who takes notes?

I keep getting in trouble for weighting these debates to favor Bush/ Cheney, but the way I see it, Kerry/ Edwards has to do much more than appear to be a little bit better than the incumbents. They will have to destroy Bush in order to prevail in this election. Even though I've said this was going to go to Bush months ago, I still believe Bush could be beaten. Not by John Kerry's CAMPAIGN. John Kerry as a candidate probably could've pulled it off, but his campaign has consistently done the exact wrong thing at nearly every turn.

These debates are just more of the same for Kerry. Yes, he's clearly better at saying stuff than Bush. It's the stuff he's saying that's failing him. To put the finest point possible on it, I'd wager that Hillary would win this election handily had she ran. I bet she knows this and is kicking herself. America is this{ }close to handing over the WOT to Kerry, the anti-war activist, and Edwards, the pretty noob. With a properly run campaign, a hot-fudge sundae with a margarita as a running mate could beat Bush.

You think I'm exaggerating, but imagine the last question of the debate without Kerry...

"Please give three instances in which you came to realize you had made a wrong decision, and what you did to correct it."

"...the big question about whether we should have removed somebody in Iraq, I'll stand by those decisions, because I think they're right," Bush says. "On the tax cut, it's a big decision. I did the right decision..."

Eventually, Bush sits down without admitting one damn mistake. Charlie Gibson turns to the opposition candidate, a hot-fudge sundae that's about half melted now from the harsh lighting. Taking a minute to compose his thoughts, the hot-fudge sundae squints at Bush incredulously. The look on the hot-fudge sundae's face says it all: "You CAN'T admit you did anything wrong!"

The view goes split screen. On the left, is Bush, looking less and less self-satisfied and smug by the second as the hot-fudge sundae leaves Bush's amazing self-inflicted injury to hang there, answered with nothing more than a hard, knowing glare. Bush begins to sweat. The hot-fudge sundae casually drips a little melted whipped cream on the cushion...

Bush looks down, suddenly realizing what he's done. He places his head in his hands. Charlie Gibson shakes his head slowly. "Ladies and Gentlemen," he says softly, "It seems the challenger has no response... has no need to offer any response, as the president's words are more damning than anything anyone could say in rebuttal... it seems appropriate now to call this debate over, and to thank you all for watching and participating in what has been an inarguably historic moment in American politics..."

Oct 10th, 2004 01:38 AM

Stabby

Quote:

Originally Posted by mburbank

Kerry should have batted the environment question out of the park. I was really disapointed by that.

He also should have nailed W every single time he slipped back into saying terrorists could have gotten WMD and forced him to say 'we thought...' each time, becaue they couldn't have.

Yeah. He should have nailed Bush several times but didn't. He should have nailed him on Supreme Court Justice picks and what type of judges Bush would pick given four more years and how that would dramatically change the balance of the Supreme Court, which is a much larger issue than is getting played in my opinon. He touched it, but didn't explain it or elaborate why this issue is important, which the majority of voters know little about. He should have nailed him on the Senate votes that Bush likes to use against him. Maybe explain why Bush threatened to veto the "87 billion dollars" proposal that Bush claims was all about supporting the troops, if 1.3 billion of additional funding went to provide medical benefits. Or how the 98 or whatever votes to raise taxes that Bush accuses, how a majority of those would actually NOT have increased taxes and others would have only increased the taxes ont he upper class. He should have nailed him for avoiding the question at the end where he was asked to admit a mistake. So many other times myself or some one else in the pub was ready to throw a drink at the TV when Bush got away with saying something we knew could be better defended. But that's the problem with the debates. They are just 90 minutes of attempts to get off the best sound-bite or reactionary facial expression so the media can replay that to the public over and over and out of context and undefended.

I think Kerry wants to run off Bush's popularity too much. Like when you hang around the cool guys in hopes that people will see you the same way. it's the same thing Gore did, hoping that he can be close enough to Bush that people will say "well, he's a lot like Bush and I like that...but he seems smarter so I'll vote for him." It's a bad strategy but it's the way he ran too much of his campaign and until these debates has seemed to me to be unable to tell the public, and most importantly his base, why he is diametrically opposed to Bush.

One more to go. I really think Kerry needs another landslide victory in this one like he had in the first, where he opened the door and caught Bush off guard, in order to pull it off.

Oct 10th, 2004 12:18 AM

Anonymous

Fuck, did somebody save that ebay auction :<

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