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Topic Review (Newest First) |
Jul 1st, 2004 06:17 PM | |||
kellychaos | Actually, Moore did admit it was more of an op/ed piece than a documentary prior to it's release. Not that I don't think that he's a smug, opinionated shithead with an agenda but he was honest in that respect. | ||
Jul 1st, 2004 05:37 PM | |||
Bobo Adobo | I know, but i am. And Micheal Moore is apperently saying it isn't propaganda. Propaganda gives me the runs. | ||
Jul 1st, 2004 10:26 AM | |||
ziggytrix | i don't think anyone is trying to make that point tho, bobo. | ||
Jul 1st, 2004 02:39 AM | |||
Bobo Adobo | I just saw it. I liked it. It was very funny and had some great points. but it is definitally one sided propaganda. anybody who says otherwise is just stupid. | ||
Jun 30th, 2004 11:40 PM | |||
Matt Harty |
I expected for him to use more ironic comedy like in Bowling For Columbine, but it was pretty good. My Bush fanatic grandpa brought me to see it. Right after the movie ended he said "Fuck Moore" but said the movie was good. |
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Jun 29th, 2004 11:17 PM | |||
Jixby Phillips | this movie wasn't as funny as cannadian bacon :/ | ||
Jun 29th, 2004 04:15 PM | |||
conus |
Quote:
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Jun 29th, 2004 03:52 PM | |||
AChimp | Then you should issue a formal declaration of war against that country, not simply cross it's borders with your army and say that you're only looking for a handful of people. | ||
Jun 29th, 2004 03:41 PM | |||
Brandon |
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Jun 29th, 2004 03:22 PM | |||
ranxer |
Quote:
lets start with cleaning up our conduct. step one might be to publicly abolish the policy of pre-emptive war. [/quote] |
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Jun 29th, 2004 01:32 PM | |||
george | i thought i made it clear that was just as bad as the marine. i was only going on about the military aspect in response to perndog making light of the situation. | ||
Jun 29th, 2004 01:26 PM | |||
ScruU2wice |
so it's ok for middle aged contractors who have little to no military connection to be beheaded. Just because beheading is commonplace doesn't mean it's alright, it's considered just as bad there as it is here... |
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Jun 29th, 2004 12:39 PM | |||
george |
i somehow doubt i was far off the mark. yes, yawn, you have nothing to worry about. you are perfectly safe in your middle class insignifigance. |
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Jun 29th, 2004 12:27 PM | |||
Perndog |
Yawn. Ad hominem is fun, right? Especially when you don't know anything about your target, right? And when you're on the Internet so you don't have to provide any evidence at all, right? Being taken prisoner is normal conduct in a war. Having your head chopped off is normal conduct in a Middle Eastern prison. I don't have anything more to say on the topic. |
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Jun 29th, 2004 12:05 PM | |||
george |
they chopped the head off a marine yesterday. the marine was enaged in the occupation of a country we should have never invaded. even if you accept the occupation of iraq as something we should have been involved in (and being a dumb ass you might) then you can not seriously think that getting kidnapped and having your head chopped off is perfectly normal conduct during a war. it is murder no matter how you stand on the iraq issue. it is easy for you to say "they volunteered for it". no they did not. they volunteered to defend their country against foes foriegn and domestic, not be the instruments for US oil policy. just cause somebody with more guts than your sorry ass will ever have made a commitment to serve the needs of his country does not mean that that pledge should be abused and misused and then shoved in their face to show them where they stand. it is especially people like you that make me disgusted by the current state of our country, you sit there in all your wussy splendor minimizing the loss of brave people with a smug "they volunteered for it" while you have never volunteered to do anything more signifigant than to buy the next round. |
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Jun 29th, 2004 12:03 PM | |||
ziggytrix | But it IS murder if they capture you, then decapitate you while you are their prisoner. | ||
Jun 29th, 2004 11:53 AM | |||
Perndog |
"murdered" soldiers It's not murder if you volunteer for military service. Military = war = people die. |
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Jun 29th, 2004 11:40 AM | |||
george |
i plan to see this movie mostly because i already hate bush, and seeing him lampooned will amuse me. i dont care if moore is right or not, you can not want bush out of office ENOUGH as far as i am concerned. ok, earlier there was sympathy for bush avoiding hard questions on the golf course by getting them to watch him swing the club, because he is on the golf course and what else should he be doing? HE SHOULD NOT BE ON THE FUCKING GOLF COURSE!!!!!! HE IS ON FUCKING VACATION WHILE AMERICAN SOLDIERS AND CITIZENS ARE BEING FUCKING MURDERED IN A MOTHERFUCKING WAR THAT WE SHOULD HAVE NEVER FUCKING EVER STARTED I REALLY DONT KNOW WHY THAT IS NOT CLEAR TO YOU. IF YOUR BUSINESS IS FAILING, YOU STAY AT THAT MOTHERFUCKING JOB UNTIL THE PROBLEM IS FIXED. we all live like this, except for the laziest, lowest morons. he is playing fucking golf while i am paying five fucking dollars a gallon for milk to pay for american soldiers to be murdered. "now watch this swing" indeed and for those of you in the 18 to 25 range, unless you feel like a mandatory vacation in southwest asia, you better get on the anti bush wagon, cause the government is preparing for it. they have been slowly hiring people into the selective service offices, and laying the groundwork. bush IS evil, and there are so many reasons that it could make you puke if you reviewed them all ( i will start another thread for that idea), and no one seems to see it. i am just glad moore is adding fuel to the anti-bush fire. |
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Jun 28th, 2004 03:15 PM | |||
ScruU2wice |
Some one made an interesting point about the whole Iraq playground scene, that we were totally being prepped for the war by the media but it musta been a total suprise to the people in Iraq. I think the whole playground thing was that people were living life as they do and all of a sudden America invades outta nowhere. |
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Jun 28th, 2004 12:43 AM | |||
GAsux |
Middle ground Can we at least agree that you're probably better educated on the subject and more grounded than 70% of the country who will see this movie? While someone who's relatively informed and interested in the subject may have the ability to determine what is or isn't being conveyed, how many do you suppose will have that same ability? Moore in my opinion has been purposely ambigious on many fronts, not just the bin Laden issue because it makes his case much stronger than if he got into the detials. Veiled references leaving the viewer to draw their own conclusions about what hes hinting at is far more effective. Regardless of the validity of the argument. |
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Jun 28th, 2004 12:00 AM | |||
KevinTheOmnivore |
Re: Why not... Quote:
They should've waited like everyone else, and more importantly, they should've been investigated again in light of their relative attacking our country. If we can detain people with Arabic names, or probe people who opposed the war in Iraq, then we can certainly inconvenience the fucking Bin Laden family for a few extra days. Put them up in a nice hotel, treat them like the royalty they certainly think they are. Do whatever, but keep them, probe them, and MAKE SURE. Quote:
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Jun 27th, 2004 10:58 PM | |||
GAsux |
Why not... I wont get into all of that because it becomes a long winded argument which Im too lazy to engage in on a Sunday night. But does not that then rationalize the argument to detain prisoners at Gitmo? There very well may be no charges against them either, and perhaps they are guilty of nothing more than association as well, but by that logic it seems to me to justify detention of them as well. In fact, the folks at Gitmo are probably MORE connected to terrorist attacks and Al Qaeda than bin Laden's family. I agree they should have had to wait just like everyone else. But that's not the heart of the argument. And again, it alludes to a veiled reference that Bush was somehow complicit in the 9/11 attacks. |
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Jun 27th, 2004 10:11 PM | |||
KevinTheOmnivore |
Re: Stuff Quote:
Moore was presenting, from his partisan perspective, a more nefarious argument that implcates the President more so, and strips him of that deniability. I think you're wrong when you argue that the Bush/Saudi link has been exhausted. Perhaps amongst a select few, but the debate is just now taking it's place in the spot light, and rightfully so, IMO. Quote:
And who says they had no worthwile information? You don't even question them? Fine, granted, let's say they were exhausted resources. Why do they get special exceptions? Why does this government scoop them up around the country? And please, don't give me the American backlash argument. They could've been protected in that case. I'll say it again-- it's a day or two after arguably the worst attack on American soil ever, and you're going to tell me that we can go ahead and give them the green light to leave as a special exception, because the resource had been "exhausted" already.....? |
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Jun 27th, 2004 10:02 PM | |||
Brandon |
Re: Clarity Quote:
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Jun 27th, 2004 09:51 PM | |||
GAsux |
Clarity To further express what I'm getting at, the bin Laden family thing is suspect at absolute best. There has been no connection or indication of bin Laden having any type of communication with his family. Even if there had been an investigation, what could the possibly have hoped to get. Rather than marginalize the argument with heresay and paper dragons, why not address the fact that at least half of the people who ACTUALLY COMMITTED the acts of 9/11 were on suspected terrorist "watch" lists, yet still managed to gain access to the country and live for several years in some cases, completely unmonitored. Why not focus on real issues instead of arguments that lead nowhere? The bin Laden argument seems to imply that Bush is somehow mysteriously complicit in the 9/11 attacks, although the connection is vague and blury. It still gives the feeling that something sinister was afoot. The inability to stop suspected terrorists from entering the country in the first place or monitor their suspicious activities once they were in the country speaks more to beauracracy and mismanagement, which is far less sexy and sells far fewer books/papers/movies. |
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